"Reasoning Together" with Bill Johnson

How does one "reason together" with Bill Johnson? Bill and myself have been walking after the Lord, as spirit-filled believers for about the same number of years. We are also about the same age. And also both of us like to hunt deer. I find it intriguing, with those commonalities, that we have very different theological perspectives- I remain Assemblies of God, a pentecostal denomination that has very clearly defined doctrine, Johnson has departed (divided) from that set of beliefs.

Matthew 18 is a hard scripture to work out in a trans-denominational setting, more so when the two parties are separated by great distance. I recently asked a Bethelonian "to whom is Bill Johnson accountable," expecting an answer like "his (hand picked) church board," but the answer I got was "Jesus." OK, that was helpful.

Many would say that Matthew 18 has the sense of "if a brother sins against you. That may or may not apply to someone who is not directly sinning against you, but whom you believe is teaching harmful things, other scriptures about false teaching notwithstanding.

Obviously, if he is accountable only to Jesus, an appeal to his church board, or an apostle over him (is there such a thing) would be pointless. And with a hand-picked board, and the same apostolic friends that "coronated" Todd Bentley while he was in his sinful debauchery in Lakeland, they would not exactly be open to discussion anyhow.

Nonetheless, I have -several times- attempted to engage Johnson in a discussion of some of these issues where he has brought division. Because his teachings were made in public, the discussions took place in public - on his facebook forum.

A non-response, in Johnson's forum of the greater church (more than 90,000 followers) has been his usual response. Or sometimes a trite and snarky response. At this point I suppose I have no recourse except to "treat him like a pagan or a tax collector."

Does James 4 come into play? "Speaking against a brother?" Well, as seen in Matthew 18, we are not to treat one who refuses to entertain a discussion as a brother, but rather as a "pagan."

In a more practical sense, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 tells us to "test all things to see if they are true." If the teaching or practice was made in a public venue, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a public discussion of that teaching or practice. The discussions, of course, should be done in a civil manner, without malice.

I am thankful that no one (recently ) has attempted to lay the "touch not mine anointed" trip on me, based on a faulty understanding of that scripture. Needless to say, I have not attempted to murder Johnson, or even physically touch him. And the "mine anointed" part is still up for discussion.

I think all of us would agree that we are approaching the end times, or at least are closer to it than ever before. The book of Jude tells us of those who "cause divisions."

Bill Johnson has recently taught that those who do not affirm the requirement of signs and wonders as a mandatory part of the gospel are teaching a different gospel - a reference to Galatians 1:6. In that sweeping accusation it is HE that is "causing division." He places himself, and his followers, at odds with the historical church, which has long held to the belief that God has the freedom to do whatever He pleases (Psalm 115:3). To make it clear- we preach the gospel and leave the signs and wonders to God. And nothing is more wonderful than seeing someone receive the gospel, make a decision to repent and follow Jesus the rest of their days. Nothing. Not even that gold glittery stuff that shows up in Johnson's church that Johnson says has "become the main thing."

OK, let's get down to brass tacks. Scripture tells us to "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24). An example of this might be 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 where Paul "judged" a fornicator in the church - even though that man was not present (bypassing Matthew 18, I might add).

False teachers are also fair game. Romans 16:17 tells us that we are to "mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." We cannot "mark them " unless we judge them.

What do I get out of this? I have no desire to elevate myself at the expense of others. But as one who floundered in the morass called the "charismatic movement" for many years, with its ever-changing doctrinal aberrations, I would be remiss if I did not try to point out error in an attempt to help others. In fact Jude 22 is my personal mission statement, to "snatch them out of the fire."

This was a reference to Amos 4:11, which talks of a brand (coal) plucked from the fire. And with this I am reminded of the immortal words of missionary Eula Goodnight (Katherine Hepburn) in the John Wayne movie Rooster Cogburn:

Our work, sir,
is to pluck brands
from the burning.

If you don't want to be plucked,
then at least show us courtesy.

Justin Abraham and the “New Mystics”

For these men are not full of the Holy Ghost, as you suppose.

There is a false anointing in the church. It is prevalent among the “signs and wonders” crowd, most notably those who call themselves the “new mystics” and promote, among other things, the “drunken glory.” As I mentioned in my article on Strange Fire in pentecost we used to call this “wildfire.” Now they embrace the term proudly and even convene “Wildfire Spirit Schools.”

Justin Abraham from Wales is one of these so-called “New Mystics.” He aligns himself with mystics John Crowder and Ben Dunn. Their agenda is to divert the church with utter foolishness at the expense of the gospel. I'm reminded of the foolish Galatians, of whom Paul said were “bewitched.”

These are the folks who now claim that God is manifesting His glory – His Divine Nature- in church services as a gold or silver-like dust. To those who object, they claim that “you cannot put God in a box.” Yet God has already given us His response in His Word:

“Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.” -Acts 17:29

This was a quote from the Apostle paul at Mars Hill. More than anyone, the people of Athens would have enjoyed the escapades of the New Mystics. Paul's reaction was to get in their face and call them to repentance.

The aberrations do not stop there. For just a small fee, you can learn to levitate, bi-locate, even do “shape shifting.”  No mention if the invisibility manifestion involves "cloaking devices" or not.

In this recording, Justin Abraham tells us that we can, through a divine impartation, breathe underwater (at 02:36). Friends, this is not biblical Christianity.

I have already written about the drunk-in-the-spirit manifestation promoted by people such as John Crowder or Carol Arnott (Toronto). Sadly, this is probably the least damaging thing taught by Justin Abraham.

I guarantee that this clip will get you laughing, but do not confuse your laughter with Holy Laughter, unless we are talking about the Godly laughter cited in Psalm 2:4. It's a long clip; I could only get through about 4 minutes of it.

Jesus plainly tells us that in the last days, you know those days that come at a time we do not expect, that “false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to misled, if possible, even the elect.” -Matthew 24:24

While there may be some gospel truth proclaimed in these meetings, we call this sort of stuff  Gospel Plus. There would not be deception in the church if truth was not mixed in with error. I can only ask- isn't the gospel – Christ and Him crucified – enough? That's all Paul wanted to know (1 Cor 2:2) . That's all I want to know.
Tags: Harrisonburg, EMU, The Hub, Laurinda Peters, Spirit School, Company of Burning Hearts, Justin Abraham, Wales, New Mystics, Rachael Abraham, Mainstage Theater

Strange Fire

Have you ever heard the term “Strange Fire?” Very often it is used to describe bizarre manifestations seen in the church, which seem to be more flesh than spirit. The term “strange fire” comes from Leviticus, Chapter 10.

Author Lee Grady addressed this in 2009 when he wrote an article titled “Strange Fire in the House of the Lord.” He characterized then-currrent fads involving angels, ecstatic worship, and necromancy as “strange fire.” I believe that almost three years later, things have gotten worse, not better. Says Grady:

No one fully understands what Nadab and Abihu did to prompt God to strike them dead in the sanctuary of Israel. The Bible says they loaded their firepans with incense, ignited the substance and "offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them" (Lev. 10:1, NASB). As a result of their careless and irreverent behavior, fire came from God's presence and consumed them.

Zap. In an instant they were ashes.

And so “Strange fire” is used to describe odd and unusual forms of worship which are not prescribed in the bible. Sometimes in Pentecostal circles, you will hear it called “wildfire” as people joke that they would “rather have a little wildfire than no fire.” But is it a joking matter?

Let's turn to Leviticus and read the story in Chapter 10. Before we look at that, you should note the context – Chapter 9 lays out God's order for Tabernacle worship –concerning the sacrifices on the altar. Moses gives these instructions to Aaron and his sons, with this admonition: “This is what the Lord has commanded you to do..”

In Chapter 10, starting at verse 1, we read:

Then Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abihu, each took his fire pan and put fire in it, set incense on it, and presented strange fire before the Lord, which he had not commanded them to do. So fire went out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them so that they died before the Lord. Moses then said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord spoke: ‘Among the ones close to me I will show myself holy, and in the presence of all the people I will be honored.’” So Aaron kept silent.

The expression “strange fire” used here in several translations is rendered “profane fire ” in the New King James and “unauthorized fire”; in the NIV and has been interpreted numerous ways. According to the NET bible, “the infraction may have involved any of the following or a combination thereof: (1) using coals from someplace other than the burnt offering altar (i.e., “unauthorized coals”), using the wrong kind of incense (cf. the Exodus 30:9 regulation against “strange incense”), (3) performing an incense offering at an unprescribed time or (4) entering the Holy of Holies at an inappropriate time(Lev 16:1-2).”

As Grady says, No one fully understands what Nadab and Abihu did to prompt God to strike them dead. I believe the term “profane fire” may give us some understanding. Contrary to common usage, “profane” does not mean cussing. It means, according to Webster, to “violate anything sacred, or treat it with abuse, irreverence...or contempt.” A simple definition is “to make ordinary that which is Holy.”

Recently someone in the “signs and wonders movement” suggested that the sin of Nadab and Abihu was that they offered up the fire in the tradition of the past. That statement turns orthodoxy in its head, which has always claimed that strange fire is turning away from God's established prescriptions. Jude 1:3 tells us to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. So there certainly can be good religious tradition. Bear in mind that I'm certainly not defending dead religious tradition, I'm just saying that dead religious tradition is not, in itself, “strange fire.”

Let's focus back on verse 1 again. After God delivered precise instructions about the tabernacle worship- specifically the burnt offerings, and those offerings were made on the altar- which the fire consumed, we read “Then Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abihu...” “Then,” from the original Hebrew, tells us that this happened on the day of the inauguration day of tabernacle worship, right after the fire consumed the offerings on the altar. Remember the chapter divisions in the bible are artificial. It doesn't really matter what the strange fire was, the problem was that they presented strange fire before the Lord, which he had not commanded them to do.

In other words, God told them what to do, Nadab and Abihu thought they knew better. At the root of strange fire you will always find presumption.

I could list a volume of things we see today in churches that are increasing in influence that God never told us to do. 2 Corinthians 4:2 tells us of those who handle the Word of God deceitfully, and I believe that this is a bigger problem today than in Paul's time. Scripture no longer means what it says, it is redefined by what God told a contemporary prophet, or through dreams and visions. And most of these folks doing things that God never told us to do, like Uzzah - who tried to steady the ark, have the best intentions, but are just plain wrong.

Let us not operate with our own ideas of how to do things. God has given us very detailed instructions, and more than any thing else, we need to honor those instructions with our obedience. It sounds spiritual to say that God is "doing a new thing" – we need to make sure that the "new thing" is not birthed in the flesh, as the good intentions and the good ideas of man will always lead to ruin.

Mike Bickle, a major leader in the apostolic and prophetic movement recently stated:

I will allow the fake in the room because I so believe in the genuine. I've had students (say) “Some of this seems fake” I go “It is... most of it's fake.” Most places that I've been, the majority of the manifestations are not caused by the holy spirit... but the problem is, it's not all fake. I will allow a whole lot of hamburger helper to allow the genuine take place.

By “hamburger helper” he means “the flesh.” It was at his meetings, when “revival” broke out recently, that the so-called “drunk in the spirit” manifestation became full blown in Kansas City.

While the trend today is to make church all about "signs and wonders," to seek after the “anointing” as if it were a play toy, and the battle cry is “bless me Lord,” we need to cultivate a reverence and fear of the Holy One . That is the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

I'll close with this from Leonard Ravenhill:

There’s an old hymn that says, "God’s presence and His very self, an essence all divine". I’ll ask you again, I’ve asked you before, When did you last go out of the sanctuary on tiptoe because God had revealed His holiness and His majesty?

Ravenhill is teaching out of 2 Samuel 6, when they retrieved the ark. He goes on to say:

Notice in verse five now. David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord in all instruments made of fir wood, harps, and psalteries, and timbrels, and cornets, and on cymbals. Now there’s his ecstasy! Now come down to verse nine.(After Uzzah was struck down. -ed.) This same David was afraid of the Lord that day. He said, "How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?" That’s a big switch! He’s excited they’re having the band music and having a whale of a time, and then suddenly God intervenes. And suddenly his whole emotional life does a somersault. He realizes what an awful God he serves. What a God of majesty! What a God of glory!

Bethel Church - there the vultures will gather?

In case you have been asleep for the last few weeks, a spiritual manifestation of the “glory cloud” has been taking place at Bill Johnson's Bethel Church in Redding, CA. I blogged about it two weeks ago, not knowing that it had already accelerated like gasoline on a fire. Pastor Bill Johnson states that it is a “sign that makes you wonder.” Well, since he has the right to wonder, I suppose others, who may not arrive at the same conclusions, have the same right as well. I'll state right up front that any commenters who seek to prophetically warn others of blasphemy will not see their posts go through. We serve a God that is big enough to allow us to wonder about such things, and besides, we already have "Apostle" Bill Johnson's permission.

Of course, in the “river,” there has always been gold dust, gold fillings, even drippy gold-laced oil stigmata. Also gemstones appearing in churches and people's yards. And, as you might expect, there have been occasions of outright fraud, and intsances of well-meaning but totally-deceived people who just wanted to help God along by "seeding" the place.

The sheer magnitude of the current manifestation seems to rule out man-made fraud. Sure there are Hollywood effects that could be used, and Johnson's son (Bethel's worship leader) admits that he uses “lights and smoke” but perhaps that is limited to his “Jesus Culture” roadshow. Alarmingly, Brian Johnson also muses in another tweet “Do lights and smoke increase the anointing in worship?” I would have to say, based on that question, that there is a wide theological gap between Brian Johnson's understanding of the “anointing” and mine. How could anybody even ask that?

In reponse to my direct question, Bill Johnson has attested to me that they do not use smoke machines in their services, aside from youth events. I'll take him at his word.

The complexity of the current manifestation (and I say current because it changes every time) appears to be on the level of something that perhaps George Lucas or Steven Spielberg could pull off, but probably not without many others knowing it. And secrets like this are hard to keep. So, my impression is that this is a spiritual manifestation – genuinely supernatural. Take a look.

The following question was posed on a facebook discussion of this and it think it is worth looking at:

Ok my fellow Christians, let me get this straight.

We believe in an invisible God who lives in a place we cannot see, and who lives OUTSIDE of time but yet INSIDE our hearts.

We believe that a whale's belly is the place for man who disobeys and an ark on top of a flooded planet is the place for a man who listens.

We believe in talking snakes, talking donkeys, and talking bushes.

We believe that a Spirit can impregnate a virgin. We believe that God's Son came to Earth, died, raised Himself from the dead, and performed amazing miracles.

And we believe this earth will be destroyed by scorpion-tailed locusts, a lion-headed cavalry, a seven headed Beast of the Sea, and a seven headed red Dragon.

BUT

Gold flakes appearing during a church service is inconceivable?

Here's my response to that question:

YES - God can show us incredible signs and wonders.

Here's the problem:

In the recent past, many of the manifestations could be explained as being "of the flesh." Derek Prince called it a "mixture of spirits." Toronto "holy laughter" is an excellent example of such a mixture. I've seen it; we've all seen it.

This manifestation (or "sign and wonder") seems apart from the flesh (unless this is a massive fraud perpetrated by the leadership of Bethel, and I do not believe that is the case.) Although once limited to small manifestations, such as the fraud like Sylvania Machado employed at the Ruth Heflin campmeetings, this is being presented on a much larger scale.

And so I believe that we are looking at something that is supernatural.

The  question dodges the source of the supernatural. If we believe- scripturally- of the validity of signs and wonders today we also must believe - scripturally - of lying signs and wonders. Jesus promised us, in Matthew 24, that we would see – in the last days – false signs and wonders that would deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Besides its venue-specific nature, which gives me pause, the ever-accelerating nature of this phenomena is something to ponder.

1. Bird Feathers
2. A few gold flakes here and there
3. Gold, feathers and gemstones
4. Smoke
5. Smoke with a few gold flakes
6. Smoke with a few gold flakes, a few gemstones thrown in for effect
7. Swirling smoke with a few gold flakes
8. Swirling smoke with luminescent sparklies
9. Massive swirling smoke with uprising confetti sparkles

I don't see that sort of ramping-up in the miracles in the bible. The plague of locusts didn't start with a few stink bugs.

I would propose that this sort of ramping-up has a direct correlation with the insatiable desire for more and more signs and wonders - call it lust - call it a “generation seeking after signs and wonders” - and someone is playing along with that, and feeding that desire.

The facebook question is a good one, but it does not go deep enough. If it was God's nature to feed (increase) our insatiable desires, the story of the manna in Exodus 16 might have played out differently.

Satan, on the other hand, wants to fuel our lusts. We know for a fact that the secret power of lawlessness is already at work (2 Thessalonians 2). Could this be a factor here? I don't know, because the lawless one has not yet been revealed.

There seems to be a real disconnect between the nature of God and the ever-increasing nature of the manifestation plus the less-than-sober reaction of those in the congregation when it occurs.

More questions than answers, I'm afraid.

As always, let's keep things civil, I'm going to delete any responses that use the terms such as heretic, blasphemer, antichrist, Sadducee, Pharisee, or scoffer. How does the ever-increasing nature of this manifestation line up with the manner in which the unchangeable God has revealed himself in the past? Is this like God? What do you think?

Bethel Church – Your kingdom come... on earth as in heaven

Bill Johnson's Bethel Church teaches that "dance can be powerful tools of transformation in other’s lives." To further this end, they hold Arts conferences where they share "testimonies and impart a supernatural anointing for signs and wonders, which can be translated in what you create though hearing God’s voice, asking for understanding and then releasing His presence as you create!"

In the conferences thay have workshops which endeavor "to teach on and activate in what it looks like to connect with what the Holy Spirit is saying in the moment and express it through dance." They advertise "You will discover how to use your talent and ability to make prophetic declarations and transform your surroundings." And they ask "What does it mean to dance prophetically or deliver a word through dance?"

OK, boys and girls, if this is prophetic, then we are instructed to judge it. This presentation was done on the last day of an Arts conference at Bethel in 2010. Have at it.



Extra points for the first reader to supply the name of the song which starts at about 1:40 in the video.

Again, just to keep things civil, I'm going to delete any responses that use the terms such as heretic, blasphemer, antichrist, Sadducee, Pharisee, or scoffer. And responses such as "I know this is right because of the burning in my bosum" are not especially helpfull. You may post as Anonymous, but listing your name (or screen name) in the post will help others to direct their responses.

Adding on 11/11/11 - another video by popular request. If the first one made you laugh, this one will sober you up real quick.

Gold Dust and Feathers at Bethel

Recently, on a facebook discussion group addressing all-things-Bethel, a Johnsonite became noticeably angry and vulgar when the question of gold dust and feathers at Bethel was brought up. The question was “If you attend Bethel, do you really think this is ok?” Getting past the carnal reactions (both sides), it was informative and instructive to see the usual arguments brought forth. I'd like to discuss these in detail.

Response Number 1

"God can and will use whatever He pleases to show himself real to people"

This is a variation of the classic "you can't put God in a box" argument. It is based on the false premise that we cannot understand or comprehend God and denies the fact that God can put Himself in a box.

We know certain things of God to be true:

He is faithful. He is truth. In Him there is no guile. He is all-knowing. He is everywhere. He knows our heart. He is jealous. He loves us. He is long-suffering. He is not capricious. He is just. He is righteous. And this is not a comprehensive list- let's just say He has revealed himself and we can know Him.

How do we know such things? Well, He has revealed Himself in history, and that revelation is recorded in scripture, which He has given to us. This concept is so important that theologians have given it a name: perspicuity. Quoting theopedia:

The doctrine of the clarity of Scripture (often called the “perspicuity of Scripture”) teaches that the meanings of the text can be clear to the ordinary reader, that God uses the text of the Bible to communicate His person and will. The witness of the Church throughout the ages is that ordinary people, who approach it in faith and humility, will be able to understand what the Bible is getting at, even if they meet with particular points of difficulty here and there.

OK, back from that rabbit trail. We can know certain things about God. And we know these things, not just based on our subjective experiences (which can lie) but based on the written Word of God, and our experiences and the teachings of others - tested against the Word of God as per 1 Thessalonians 5:21 ("test all things").

What is a box? It suggests a boundary - inside the box is one condition, outside the box is another. The National Weather Service, for instance, will post a Tornado warning and draw boundaries on a map- inside the warning "box" is a warning condition, outside is not. They even use the term "box" for these warnings.

So, to help us understand God let's make a little diagram. A box if you will. Let's use a few of the attributes listed above to form the boundaries of that box.

I think you must agree that God has placed himself in a box and there are certain things that He will not do. He is not a wishy-washy capricious God like so many false Gods, who act on a whim. Not only can we grasp the nature of God, but He wants us to, for He wants us conformed to His image. it is not, to use another metaophor, a "moving target."

How can anyone who argues "His heart aches for all to know Him in a VERY intimate way" not understand that God is knowable because He has (metaphorically) placed Himself in a box.

Variation on the Theme

Further discussion is merited because the original statement in the present discussion was not solely the "box argument" but rather incorporated the sovereignty argument. And this is a good question - if God is sovereign (He is) then can He do any thing that He pleases?

Let's cut to the chase on this. The answer is yes, but the more honest question is "WILL He do anything that pleases?". The answer to that question is no. And we are back to the "box" argument. God will not do things that are contrary to His nature (attributes).

As a side note, I find it interesting that many Johnsonites like to play the "sovereignty card" in matters of manifestations, but not in matters of healing- which is a huge part of Bethel doctrine. Most Johnsonites would take exception to the Calvinte view of sovereignty.

Response Number 2

"If it takes "gold dust"...to get someone's attention, God would do it if He wanted to."

My first response would be a Rob-Bellish “and you know this how?” But seriously, this reasoning is as bizarre as positing "If it takes sexy naked ladies to get someone's attention, God would do this if He wanted to." Sure.

Even Bob Jones, who is highly esteemed in the signs and wonders movement and spoke recently at a Bethel conference, has long acknowledged that the three major temptation for men in ministry are "Girls, gold and glory." The concept seems understandable - even to Jones whose weakness apparently was “girls” (sexy naked ladies, to be precise).

And so it seems incredulous that God would use what is a major source of temptation to "get someone's attention." Especially since He has already given us his written Word (the Bible) and the Living Word (Jesus, the sacrifice Lamb). Isn't Jesus enough?

As to his written Word, God has already stated:

"take my instruction and not silver, And knowledge rather that choicest gold."

And He goes on to say:

"For wisdom is better that jewels; and all desirable things cannot compare with her (wisdom)."

Is God's Word Sufficient?

Historically we find the signs and wonders movement drawing on the teachings of John Wimber, who brought forth his thesis of "power evangelism" to the charismatic church. In essence this thesis teaches that signs and wonders are required for the propagation of the gospel. Scripture tells us that signs and wonders will follow the preaching of God's Word. but this has been distorted in recent years, most notably by teacher Bill Johnson, into a situation where often signs and wonders have replaced the preaching of God's Word.

This has been promoted by the Bethel practice of "treasure hunting." Reports now are coming in from California of Johnsonites publicly rebuking street preachers attampting to preach the gospel. Because God has showed them a better way? What does God have to say? Isaiah 55 might give us a hint:

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."

Romans 1:16 gives us further understanding about the gospel message:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.."

My goal here is not to proof-text the sufficiency of the written (and preached) Word for instruction in righteousness, or its ability to speak to ears that are dull. No, I think we need to question an image of God that is so weak that He has to send pigeon feathers or Mylar glitter to capture man's attention. Or, perchance, even the real things.

I mentioned earlier that God has revealed himself through history. That notion comes from Hebrews 1:1. If we read on to verse 2, we find that, in "these last days" He has revealed Himself ("spoken to us") through his Son.

And so I ask this: did Jesus, God incarnate, actually die on the cross for our sins? Did He rise again on the third day? Was this witnessed by not only the believers but by unbelievers? Here is the bottom line: if this does not get you attention, nothing will. And if it takes gold (or sexy naked girls) to get you attention, are you really saved?

To use yet another metaphor, God has "drawn a line in the sand." He is looking for those whose hearts are fully committed to him (2 Chronicles 16:9). He is not looking for carnal followers, those whose attention is gained by carnal things.

"For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

We are Left With This

On one hand we have those whose mandate is to "preach the Word." On the other hand we have those who feel they must demonstrate an over-realized kingdom theology that appeals to man's lust for signs and wonders (c.f. Matthew 12:39) and justify it by stating, as John Wimber implied, that the Word was not enough.

This, of course, is a much bigger issue than the original question regarding whether the feathers and gold dust of Bethel are a valid sign from God, or if they are even possibly a sign of judgment.

The response "God can and will use whatever He pleases to show himself real to people" is trite, untrue, and does little to advance the Bethel position. And, in spite of anecdotal tales, "If it takes 'gold dust'...to get someone's attention, God would do it if He wanted to" can be considered to be no more than conjecture and brings with it some serious baggage. So far, no Johnsonite, nor even Bill Johnson himself, has developed a useful apologetic for “feathers and gold.”

Let's talk about it. Just to keep things civil, I'm going to delete any responses that use the terms such as heretic, blasphemer, antichrist, Sadducee, Pharisee, or scoffer. Play nice.

--adding two videos 11/2/2011 - see comments --

From September 2011 service

From 10/14/11 service

From 10/22(21?)/2011 service

Adding this 11-8-2011. I'd love to see the cut diamond that grew before thier eyes examined, but not holding my breath. What sort of cut marks would it exhibit, since it grew while cut?

Mike Bickle and IHOP – The Depths of Deception

Many of the articles that I have written on this subject are quite complicated because they require an extensive knowledge concerning the so-called “prophetic history” of IHOP and the Harp and Bowl prayer movement. I'm going to make today's article simple and direct.

* * *

In 1989 after many of the deviant practices of Mike Bickle's ministry (KCF) were exposed, the church came under the wing of John Wimber and the Vineyard Fellowship. Wimber, who in later years expressed his regret in even becoming involved with the KCF, issued a 15 point memo of items that needed to be corrected.

Point fourteen seemed to be rather Bill Clintonish (“depends on what the meaning of 'is' is.”) where Wimber danced around the issue of restorationism and the five-fold.

14. Calling John Wimber, or others, apostles and prophets verses (sic) using the terms “apostolic leadership” and “prophetic ministry.”

We can see, initially, that Bickle made an effort to make correction in this area.

Here's a quote from Mike Bickle circa 1989, recalling a meeting between “prophet” Bob Jones and Art Katz, a teacher who was involved with KCF:

'That man is a prophet of God' said Katz. 'He told me secrets of my heart which no man could possibly know!' [1]

Fast forward to 1996 and a recollection of the same event in the third printing of “Growing in the Prophetic”

“Mike, this man seems like a prophet of God. He told me the secrets of my heart.” [2]

Reading on in the earlier version of the story, we are later told that Katz “suddenly stood up” and pronounces to Jones that he was a “prophet of God.” By 1996, we have Bickle “suddenly blurting” out to Jones that he was “truly prophetic.”

This is not a case of being picky about minor differences in retelling a story. And to Bickle's credit, he did make an attempt to address point fourteen. But changing the words - quotations- that were once spoken to make them politically correct is the most evil form of historical revisionism.

The Christian concept of repentance involves a change of heart, and a turning away. If you are a murderer and repent, you stop murdering. You do not revise your past history and say “yes, I beat that man very severely” when you actually killed him. You tell the truth and add the disclaimer "but I now see that murder was wrong."

The instance I have cited above is just one of dozens, perhaps hundreds, of similar revisions. Because the IHOP movement is so fascinated with their own so-called prophetic history, there are multiple stories (and versions) of heavenly visitations to leaders of the movement where God spoke and gave direction. In the same manner as the simple story above, it can be demonstrated, through comparing various documents and teaching tapes, that Mike Bickle will take the same liberties and revise even what he says are the very words of God- to suit the circumstance. We may question whether God even spoke, but it is presumptious  to change those words that supposedly were spoken to make one look good.

This is a movement with deception at it heart.

Therefore, it has not been created in the image of God.

* * *

Please be sure to click on the COMMENTS link below.



[1] Pytches, David. Some Said It Thundered. Second impression, 1990. Hodder and Stoughton, London. (UK edition).


[2] Bickle, Mike. Growing In the Prophetic.. Third printing 1996. Creation House, Lake Mary, Fl.

David Pytches - Some Said It Thundered

In 1990, David Pytches wrote a book about Mike Bickle and the Kansas City Prophets. Pytches, an Anglican Bishop, was very influential in the spread of Charismaticism into the United Kingdom, and was the founder of the New Wine conferences at that time (1989). Pytches book, “Some Said It Thundered” is perhaps the most comprehensive book on the KCP movement (now IHOP) but the biggest criticism of the work is that is was written from a very sympathetic viewpoint. Writes James A. Beverly:

David Pytches, the well-known Anglican renewal leader, gave the “rosy” and overly optimistic interpretation of KCF in his international best-seller, Some Said It Thundered. Unfortunately, his account is not the best place to turn for judicious and balanced investigation. In an article I wrote in The Canadian Baptist (March-April, 1992) I stated that the second edition of Pytches' work is marred by an “intemperate” forward by John White. Dr. White, in a spirit of graciousness, wrote me later and agreed that my verdict was correct. My view was based on the harsh statements about Ernie Gruen and his uncritical acceptance of the Vineyard's written reply about Gruen.

What I find most interesting about Pytches' book, and in line with my previous article about historical revisionism and the White Horse Prophecy, are the differences between the first edition of the book (published in the UK) and the second edition of the book which gained wide distribution in the States.

The Introduction to the second edition admits that (because of the Gruen Report) “the current attention being paid to the work developing at the Kansas City Fellowship has caused the leadership there to be particularly concerned about how they are presented. They wish to eliminate any impression of elitism for themselves.”

This makes it clear that Pytches work was written with a bias towards the Kansas City Prophets.
And true to form, many of the fantastic stories were either eliminated or greatly toned down. The story of Mike Bickle's visitation to heaven was eliminated, as were the references to Pat Bickle and the promise (city-wide revival) that would come with his healing.

And so, even back in 1991 there was a scrambling to put on a better public face, even though in meetings the fantastic stories were still told, and the promises believed. Around this time, certain tapes were removed from the tape ministry catalog of Grace Ministries (Bickle's umbrella organization), including the previously discussed and recently recovered Visions and Revelations.

Discovering these contemporaneous accounts has been very valuable in deciphering what really took place in these seminal years of the International House of Prayer movement. We have already written about the failed White Horse Prophecy and subsequent historical revisionism. Central to the prophecy (originally) was the idea that Bickle's paraplegic brother would be healed and his healing would bring about revival and a “city church” to Kansas City.

Let me be clear- the lack of healing (Pat Bickle later passed away) does not invalidate the IHOP ministry. God can (and will) sovereignly heal whom He may. What, in my mind, invalidates the IHOP ministry is a claim to a so-called “Prophetic History” that is frequently revised to eliminate failed prophecies and to portray the founding of the movement in a better light.

If you have not yet read about the White Horse Prophecy, now would be a good time. I'll wait.

* * *

In essence, the White Horse Prophecy changed over time to suit the circumstances. What was once a white horse with two men, one on a board on the horse (Pat Bickle) became a white horse with the "young leaders" of the movement. Too much trouble to explain the failed prophecies, I suppose.

As you may have seen from that article, we have been able to piece together a story from multiple sources which brings out the emphasis of that prophecy from the late 80's and early 90's- the formation period of the IHOP movement. And suffice it to say, perhaps not a single IHOP student or intern who is undergoing the mandatory training in the “prophetic history” today is aware of any of this.

And so this morning, I received in the mail a copy of David Pytches “Some Said it Thundered” first edition 1990. And the real story of the White Horse prophecy. Here are some excerpts:

Bob then spent the next two hours with eyes fixed on Mike telling him of some of the visions he believed he had received from the Lord. Central to them, it seemed, was a strange white horse with a board of its back bearing a young man. The horse was plodding along the mountain side in a stream of fresh water about four inches deep. Bob Jones was behind it holding long reins, not so much guiding the horse but steering it back into midstream, to protect it from mad rabid dogs; these apparently were sincere men with false doctrine but being rabid they had a phobia of water and dared not get into it.

Bob Jones said he imagined the man on the back of the horse must be Mike Himself. The Lord told him he was going to deliver that young man.   (Pytches, 1st edition, pp. 65)

So it appears that initially they did not realize that Pat Bickle was in the dream. This is consistent with other recollections that we have heard from Bob Jones, who is not very coherent to begin with. But further revelation was given:

As they were seated with Art Katz around Bob Jones' table that Sunday evening talking, praying and weeping before the Lord, midnight came.

Bob Jones spoke: 'By the way, an angel of the Lord visited me last night and told me I was mistaken! I asked Him, “What did I get wrong?” The angel said: “In that vision of the white horse in the stream that young man was not Mike but his brother Pat.”

'The other day Pat asked me if I had ever seen him before and I said “No!” Last night the angel re-ran that vision of the white horse which I have already told you about. I had always thought that the young man I saw carried on that board on the back of the white horse must be you, Mike! But when the angel spoke to me he showed me that actually it was Pat who was being borne on the white horse. So I had in fact seen Pat before but mistakenly I told him that I had not.

“Last night in the same vision I saw you, Mike, and I made a comment to you about the heavy responsibility you bore concerning Pat and you replied: “He's not heavy; he's my brother and I love him so much.”'

Mike was visibly startled at those words and began to sob. 'You have no idea what you have just said to me! Those were the very words that I had used in my secret covenant with the Lord over my brother!' he sobbed.   (Pytches, 1st edition, pp. 83)

Now it appears that another vision was factored into the story- this one given to Pat Bickle and then interpreted by another Kansas City Prophet, Augustine Alcala:

Later in August 1984 Bob Jones came up to Mike. 'Oh, by the way, I have a prediction for you. A young man is going to have a vision very soon. It will lift you high off the ground. You will hold on to him and not let go.'

What young man could be going to have a vision that could cause Mike to leap up like that, he wondered. He went home rejoicing. Once in the house, the phone rang. It was Augustine. 'Mike! God is going to visit your brother Pat tonight! He will show him that he will heal him!

The Lord did indeed visit Pat during the night. It was at 4:03 a.m. On the Friday. Pat was wide awake when in what seemed like a trance (cf. Acts 10:10) the Lord appeared and he was terrified. 'I have come. For eleven years I have not dealt with you.” said the Lord. It seemed slightly enigmatic. Pat came out of his trance and lay on his bed still in great fear. He had clearly not been healed. That morning he called Mike and asked him what it meant.

While Pat was still on the Line, Augustine (who only knew directly from the Lord what had happened to Pat that morning) called Mike on another line. Unable to reach him, Augustine left a message: Regarding Pat's visitation last night, look at Acts 3 where you will see that key miracle that opened up the city of Jerusalem was the healing of a cripple, and then at Acts 14 where another cripple was healed and this second miracle opened the door for the gospel to enter at Lystra. The Lord has called Pat and told him that he is going to heal him and this will be the key for the gospel to the whole of Kansas City.'

Mike was thinking fast. God had made Pat to be a sign to this city. Most people would have forgotten the story of his accident and subsequent testimony by then, but it seemed they would soon have cause to remember it.   (Pytches, 1st edition, pp. 102-3)

Well, finally we have cause to remember it.

* * *

See also:
Mike Bickle - The White Horse Prophecy

Mike Bickle-Inoculation of the Sheep

Revisionism and The Blueprint Prophecy

Spiritual Dishonesty

Mike Bickle - Transported to Heaven

Evangelical Christianity has historically held to the viewpoint that the office of apostle was foundational to New Testament Christianity. Generally this understanding of "office" is used to describe the function of the 12 Apostles and later Paul, who had also seen the resurrected Lord. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:8, notes that, regarding the post-resurrection appearances of Christ, that "last of all He appeared to me." A full discussion of this topic is here in a position paper issued by the Assemblies of God.


Theologian Wayne Gruedem makes a good case for the connection between the OT Prophets and the NT Apostles- the men who gave us the books of the the bible. He believes in the continuation of the gift of prophecy (but not infalliable - to be judged) but not the office of prophet.


Regardless, we must realize that many restorationist churches in the"Apostolic/Prophetic" teach that God is restoring the offices of the Apostles and Prophets to form the government of the end times church. So strongly do they feel about this that some churches are now sending out apostolic teams to other cities where they "mandate God" to "bestow apostolic keys." Seriously!

***



Apostles, of course, have great authority. It was the Apostles who wrote the New Testament. And modern day "Apostles" believe they speak with that same Biblical authority, using supernatural visits to heaven to establish doctrine and practice. In fact, those visits to heaven are very important, because they too can claim to have been face-to-face with God.

As we have discussed previously, the IHOP 24/7 prayer movement promotes the present-day office of Apostle. Its foundational prophets claim many heavenly visitations, audible messages from the Lord, and angelic visitations.

Many of these stories are contained in the 1988 recordings by Mike Bickle and Bob Jones called Visions and Revelations.

Bob Jones saw and described a vision in which, "The Holy Spirit took me to a place_this time it wasn't the Lord took me, it was the Holy Spirit. He took me to a place and I saw the Lord, high and lifted up, by some young men and he set upon the golden ark...and I looked and there were men that had hold of the ark and they had the ark upon their shoulders. And the government will be upon their single shoulders." Jones goes on to explain how, by way of allegory, the Lord showed him he would raise up 35 men, to be champions for Christ in the last days. "...They will reign and reveal to the world that they truly are the faithful and true leaders and the government that will be upon his single shoulder." Mike Bickle comments, "I think there'll be 35 like unto Paul...There would be 35 whom the Lord would separate in the highest way. The government rests on apostles and prophets."

Mike Bickle, speaking of a visit to Heaven by Bob Jones, "Paul was anxious to talk to the end-times apostles and prophets more than the end-times apostles and prophets would have been to talk to Paul. He (Paul) said because what they would do would do far more to the glory of God and the Saints in the New Testament would wait in line to greet the apostles from this generation."

In August of 1984 Mike Bickle had a visit to heaven to add to this body of knowledge.

"The Lord took my spirit out of my body... I don't know how it operates but I know your body is where its at but you're not there and you're somewhere else. And its not a dream and its not a vision, you're literally somewhere else...

I stood in this room and it had... clouds, it was a room only maybe 20 by 20 or 30. It  was a little room. It had clouds in the bottom, on the top and the walls... (Bob Jones says "That's the courtroom")... I stood there, I was at the Lord's left hand, and I stood there, this was not a dream, this was as real as life here...I know it wasn't a dream or a vision...

I was standing there looking at the clouds all around and at the Lord's left hand and I could not look at him. There was something I could not look that way...I didn't want to look that way."

Bickle goes on to tell how the Lord sternly rebuked him in the realm of patience. At which point Bickle reports thinking his own carnal thoughts (not Godly thoughts) while in the "spirit before the Lord."

Bickle reports thinking "I'm not impatient" at which point Bickle and Jones start giggling. Bickle goes on to report that he thought (in response to the Lord's rebuke) "I don't agree with that" an in response the audience bursts into laughter.

After God finished rebuking Bickle, he starts falling "I start falling so rapidly. It takes 5 or 6 seconds. And I fall down to my bed. Right through the ceiling...I was going like 'ahhhhh'- I was coming down through the black sky - I was going 'ahhhh' - it wasn't funny at the time. And it's the most holy thing that ever happened to me but I guess it's humorous to you guys and uh, I come right through the ceiling, and I hit my bed and I look for like a half-a-second and I go right back up again and I go 'ahhhh,' I go straight back up again."

After Bickle returns to the courtroom a "whole line of" golden chariots appear. he saw men with those chariots and he believed those to be the 35 or so "super-apostles" that the Lord had previously told Bob Jones would be birthed out of his movement. A chariot appeared and "the Lord said 'get in it' and I knew intuitively, instantly it was an Apostolic ministry." The Lord was not calling me an apostle. He said He was thinking, ‘The days to come, if you’re faithful, you have an opportunity in the grace of God to fill an apostolic calling if you’re faithful to the full measure.’


And so the "apostles" today frequently speak of the heavenly visitations which give them the credentials to call themselves apostles. And the visits frequently contain information that they will base there movements on, information that sometimes is used in the formation of doctrine (in this case the doctrine of the restoration of the five-fold ministry.

Which brings up the question- are visitations to heaven a biblical practice? What should man's reaction to the presence of God be? We know that the bible cites a few examples. Paul states, in 2 Corinthians 12:2

" I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak."

John the Revelator, who was "in the Spirit" and saw Jesus, "fell at His feet like a dead man."

Isaiah, in the presence of God, said "Woe is me, I am undone!"

Paul, at Damascus Road, was struck blind for three days.

Unlike these examples, Mike Bickle was not only permitted to speak of things he saw in heaven, but he recounted them with great laughter. Bickle's story cited above starts at about 01:22:00 in file three of the Visions and Revelations series of 1988. Apparently Bickle, Jones and the audience found the entire story quite funny. This does not come through in the transcript above; actually hearing it is somewhat disturbing.

In Visions and Revelations, Mike Bickle states of Bob Jones:

"You know, I'm going to tell you something about Bob. Ever since that time in '74 when he was filled with the Holy Spirit he began to see the Technicolor visions and the Lord began to visit him. Since that time he has seen many, many times, five, ten visions and dreams a night. And when I first met him, I couldn't hardly comprehend that. I said, “Five or ten a night!” He said, “Oh, yes, all the time. Sometimes more, sometimes three or four.”

In this lengthy video, Bob Jones and Todd Bentley talk about some of these visits to heaven.



To this day Jones is revered as a great prophet at IHOP. It was those "visions and revelations" that form the foundation of IHOP, the basis for their vision and present day direction.  They call it thier "prophetic history." And if we buy into the validity of the heavenly visitations of Bickle and Jones, we have to buy into the whole vision of IHOP - that it indeed is God's strategic plan for the end times. These are serious claims, and they need to be seriously considered.

Looking at Mike Bickle's claim to a heavenly visitation, it seems to be used to bolster his restorationism doctrine. More importantly, when he says "the Lord said 'get in it' and I knew intuitively, instantly it was an Apostolic ministry," it can be seen as self-affirming. Little difference between this and the prophet who proclaims "Thus saith the Lord, hear the words of my prophet."

Compare that self-serving message again with the scriptures cited above and see if you can see the difference.

The casual nature of these third-heaven visitations as promoted by the Apostolic/Prophetic movement today is a seriously disturbing phenomena. If you have the time you may also want to watch this video with Bob Jones and Bill Johnson's friend Todd Bentley. Bentley recalls a rather bizarre third-heaven experience which he had while Bill Johnson was preaching at a meeting on the west coast.




Regarding the foundations of what we know today as IHOP (was KCF) Derek Prince had this to say: "the material circulated by KCF contains many statements which have no basis in Scripture and are frequently contrary to Scripture." He called some of the revelations "absurd and even blasphemous," and warned that "much of the material is permeated by what I consider to be occult influence."

That was twenty years ago. Is anyone paying attention?
Tags: Harrisonburg, JMU-HOP, jmuhop, theprayerfurnace, Fredericksburg Prayer Furnace, 24-7 Virginia, Chi Alpha, IHOP, David Bradshaw, Scott Bradshaw, Bowie Curry, Randy Martinez, Mark Kazmier, FPF Missions Base, The Prayer Furnace, The Burn, The Burn Service, Solemn Assembly, Prayer Room, Campus Strike Force

Introduction to Harp and Bowl Prayer

Fervent prayer – that’s a good thing, right? There’s a model of prayer meeting going around that is called “Harp and Bowl.” The term “Harp and Bowl” is taken from imagery in  Revelation 5, where the 24 elders held harps (worship) and bowls (prayers of the saints). Harp and Bowl is just one model that integrates worship and prayer, which of course is not a new concept. But the term Harp and Bowl refers to a specific stye of prayer meeting developed by Mike Bickle and the International House of Prayer (IHOP). Ok, admit it, the illustration to the right did get your attention, didn't it?

Here’s some things you need to be aware of:


1. The Harp and Bowl model is by its very nature integrated with Mike Bickle's IHOP ministry. Even though there may be no formal (or publicly revealed) connections‐ instructional material, training, lists of “Apostolic Prayers,” and personnel are in some way connected with IHOP. Various “satellite” prayer rooms travel to other communities and plant more 24/7 prayer rooms. These new prayer rooms feed new "interns" to the Kansas City prayer room or other regional prayer rooms, also internships at the various regional prayer rooms or the mother-ship will often feed people out to the new plants.


2. Those connections are solidified as existing prayer rooms send out apostolic teams to other towns and bestow "Apostolic Keys" and decree “prophetic mandates” to select individuals (I can't make this stuff up). It’s a budget form of church planting. The movement is spread through the laying-on-of-hands in the best Latter-Rain tradition.


3. 24/7 prayer rooms in the IHOP tradition most ALWAYS start out as ecumenical efforts, and usually for just a few hours a week. As things grow, more often than not, this ecumenical para‐church organization becomes a church of its own, drawing off the most passionate people from other local churches. By removing itself from established churches, it also removes itself from church oversight, allowing it to easily slide into heresy.


4. The Proselytizing nature of Harp and Bowl functions to further Mike Bickle's objective of the city church," a key feature today of the Apostolic/Prophetic movement. This movement functions under the fallacy of the restoration of the Offices of Apostle and Prophet.


5. Harp and Bowl is built on a flawed premise ‐ that God cannot or will not do anything until we fill the bowls with the prayers of the saints. Theologically, this is based on dominionism. Quoting their manual: “God does not act apart from human beings partnering with His heart.” Proponents believe they can “mandate” things, in effect tell God what to do.


6. At its roots, Harp and Bowl is based on a Post‐Trib, Pre‐Mill eschatological scheme called "Apostolic Premillenialism." Its central biblical rationalization is Revelation 5:8, which in the Pre‐Trib mindset, takes place in the future. Because of its emphasis on the Manifestation of the Sons of God, it cannot be eschatologically neutral.


7. Harp and Bowl to the casual observer appears very spontaneous and "spirit led." However, it is a very structured scheme which is liturgical in nature. Most objectionably, the scheme is promoted as God's chosen way- His “strategic plan” for the end times. Most all churches have an “order of service,” which is what we call liturgy. Few churches would dare to claim that their traditional order of service is God's chosen plan for the end times. Harp and Bowl makes that claim.


8. Harp and Bowl has been compared (by its proponents) to the Latter Rain "Restoration of the Tabernacle of David." In large scale operations it involves paid "missionaries" (musicians, intercessors) and establishes a class of priests apart from the laity. This, of course, fosters elitism. It is a model, in the here and now, that is alien to the New Testament. More info here.


9. Harp and Bowl is seen as a spiritual warfare tool, where intercessors issue "decrees" and sometimes become involved in telling angels how to battle for us. The "fullness of the faith" is seen in those who press in to operate on "a true spirit of prayer" implying that those outside the model are not. Within this movement the concept of the sovereignty of God is but a fleeting thought.


10. The foundations of Harp and Bowl are Manifested Sons of God. It is taught that only the "elected seed" (Bob Jones) will enter into this ‐ "those chosen from their Mother's womb" (Mike Bickle). Bob Jones was one of the prophets who prophesied the coming of the IHOP movement in the early days of the Kansas City Fellowship. "Those who are foreknown and predestinated for the end times, for you see, they’ll be the best of all the seed that’s ever been. . . This will be the end generation that is foreknown and predestinated to inherit all things...For they are the best of all the generations that have ever been upon the face of the earth. And the best of all generations are those elected seeds that will glorify Christ in the last days. . . They will move into things of the supernatural that no one has ever moved in before. Every miracle, sign, and wonder that has ever been in the Bible‐‐they’ll move in it consistently...because the Lord Jesus is worthy to be lifted up by a church that has reached the full maturity of the God‐man!." (Bob Jones). This is the "new breed" teaching of the MSoG heresy.


These are course are generalizations. The movement has been building for almost 30 years and its theology is complex and often contradictory. But any movement which claims to have the corner on truth (This end time's prayer movement - Harp and Bowl- is God's chosen strategy) should be prepared to have their presumptions investigated.

Understand that one of the core teachings from Mike Bickle, the founder of this movement, is that people who question the movement are "rabid dogs" and that no defense - no answer- should be given to them. So don't expect a meaningful response from the supporters of this movement. Expect to be 'cut off.' Expect appeals to 'unity'. Interesting that 'unity' as they define it always depends on an acceptance of the teachings and practicies revealed (only) to them as God's specially anointed apostles and prophets.Tags: Harrisonburg, JMU-HOP, jmuhop, theprayerfurnace, Fredericksburg Prayer Furnace, 24-7 Virginia, Chi Alpha, IHOP, David Bradshaw, Scott Bradshaw, Bowie Curry, Randy Martinez, Mark Kazmier, FPF Missions Base, The Prayer Furnace, The Burn, The Burn Service, Solemn Assembly, Prayer Room, Campus Strike Force