The Role of the Prophet

Today's "Prophetic Church" encourages "all to prophesy". As reported in Charisma Magazine churches like Morningstar (Charlotte N.C.) see this as a prime mission.

"In an effort to stir up the gift of prophecy among the saints, he (Rick Joyner) typically calls a member of his church out of the audience and asks him to stand before the congregation. He then encourages other members to speak words the Lord has laid on their hearts concerning the individual. With wireless microphone in hand, Joyner ambles around the sanctuary, obliging those who volunteer to speak. At his church in Charlotte, North Carolina, prophets-in-training actually set up tables in the sanctuary where they meet with members and visitors to pray and offer personal prophecies."

John Bevere issued a strong warning to the church regarding personal prophecy in his 1999 book "Thus Saith the Lord". According to Bevere's website, "Too often, modern 'prophets' stream through our churches, fellowships, and homes giving words almost like fortune-tellers."

The new-age fortune telling of the "prophetic church" has led many to discount the role of the prophet altogether. Is there a place for the prophet or prophecy in today's church?

According to Andrew Strom, this "prophetic church" type of "ministry" is standing under the judgement of God. Says Strom:

"As you know, for some time now I have spoken of the 'John-the- Baptist' type ministries that must arise to preach REPENTANCE in the Western nations. -Preachers of righteousness with a piercing word, like the Finneys, the Wesleys and the Whitefields of old. Such ministries are essential for true Revival to come. I now see that this new move must completely "separate itself" from the influence of the existing Prophetic movement. We need a completely 'NEW' Prophetic, and to keep it from being tainted by the sickness that has infected the old, there must be a complete cutting-off and a "leaving behind"."

As one who has had to shake off a lot of things, I can only say AMEN.

However, it is important to note some in the church have a long tradition of right thinking in this matter.

Leonard Ravenhill, in "Picture of a Prophet" stated:

"The prophet in his day is fully accepted of God and totally rejected by men."

"The prophet comes to set up that which is upset. His work is to call into line those who are out of line! He is unpopular because he opposes the popular in morality and spirituality. In a day of faceless politicians and voiceless preachers, there is not a more urgent national need than that we cry to God for a prophet! The function of the prophet, as Austin-Sparks once said, 'has almost always been that of recovery.'

Ravenhill's full article is worthy of your attention.


Originally posted December 14, 2004

Spirit Travel

"Prepare to have your view of 'The Church' changed forever, and I mean it!"

Steve Shultz of the Elijah List proclaims it, and I echo his comments. Just not in the way he was expressing it. As the prophetic church moves further into delusion (2 Thes 2:11), my view of it is changing. Shultz goes on to say:

"Experience first hand this amazing account as Jesus, the Lion of Judah, transports a lonely hospital-bound woman from her place of infirmity into a nearly worldwide trip to finally see the Church, and many outside the Church -- through the eyes of Jesus Himself."

Ahh, Spirit Travel, yes, I've heard of that. I don't want to seem unkind towards this lonely woman, but make no mistake, the account in this book is NOT talking about a dream or vision, it is not allegory, it is not C.S. Lewis fiction. It talks of Spirit Travel, aka Being Transported, and more specifically in the book it states that she rode on the Lion of Judah's back.

Shultz goes on to say:

"And still today, hundreds, if not thousands, of God's people are continuing to have 'caught up' experiences where God shows them marvelous revelation for the Church. Anne Elmer never saw it coming. But before she knew it, the Lord was transporting her all over the earth, in multiple experiences, to see God's people from many different groups, and in many countries -- but no longer from her perspective."

In recent months the Prophetic Church has aggressively moved forward with the doctrine of reclaimation: Astrology was originally from God and was corrupted by the devil, now they reclaim it. Fortune telling / "getting a reading" was originally from God, now they reclaim it. Voodoo dancing was originally from God, now they reclaim it. Now the church is "reclaiming" eastern-esque "spirit travel," as an ordinary means of transportation, from the cults? God help us!

Citing examples of Paul, John the Revelator and Phillip, we are now told that these exceptional occurrances (such that they were recorded in scripture) are now being experienced by perhaps thousands. And they use the term "caught up" (harpazo/rapere/raptured) to describe it.

In spite of all this posturing, the scriptures are void of any implication that Jesus will return/be revealed to any individuals (doctrine of "selective" or "limited rapture") in these last days before He returns for his church. When we are caught up "all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory." Matthew 24:30

Plan and Simple: He will not be sneaking back to earth to usher people from here to there. His return will be literal and in the clouds, just as it was when He left.

"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:11

Looking again at Matthew 24, we can see why Jesus has proclaimed that He will come back in the manner described in Acts 1:11. In verse 4 of Matthew 24 Jesus warns us:

"For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many."

and in verses 24 and 25:

"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time."


I see little difference between calling yourself "Christ" or "Lion of Judah".

Not unexpectedly, this false Christ described in this book contradicts His Holy Word when he states: "But Christian if you had come with me, we could have flown together, and you could have sown your seeds from a great height and the Holy Spirit would have carried them and planted them in good soil, in ground that I have already prepared." Matthew 13 tells us (for those that have "ears to hear") that not all seed will fall on good soil.

But perhaps this is in line with Wimber-esque theology which states that "God is not limited by His Word."

God's word, of course, has a better explanation:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
2 Timothy 4:3-4

Note that books like these (promoted on Elijah List) would not sell if there wasn't a market for them. I guess the Bible just isn't interesting enough.

references:

http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=2674


http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=2657

Originally posted December 12, 2004

Reflections on Paul Cain

One can only feel sorry for Paul Cain concerning the recent announcement that he has been dis-fellowshipped for homosexual practices as well as alcoholism. And pity for the Charismatic church. I have long pondered the apparent connection between homosexuality and high profile "prophets" and preachers. In my 34 years as a Charismatic I saw again and again the devastation caused by arrogant leaders eventually revealed as sodomites. And it goes beyond men snapping each other with towels in the steam room at PTL (now MorningStar) and $425,000 payoffs; how about a traveling prophet so bold as to sleep with his boy lover at church conferences? This is not something I've just read about, I've known men such as these and even been prayed (preyed) or prophecied over by the same. And I renounce it in the Name of Jesus.

While one can fall back on Let God be True and everyman a Liar how much is enough? When will holiness really be important to the Charismatic/Prophetic Church?

And when will the Charismatic/Prophetic Church own up to these problems? After releasing a statement in October about Paul Cain, Rick Joyner now writes revisionist history by now stating "it seems that Paul has been off of the spiritual radar scope for so long that there was just not much interest in this situation."

How quicky they abandon their wounded warriors! What makes this statement incredulous is that Paul Cain is the man cited by Bob Jones as "the greatest prophet alive." Mike Bickle has stated something to the effect that if anyone could bear the title "prophet" it would be Paul Cain. Bickle's church called Cain (and Wimber) "chosen vessels among others in the nation." Rick Joyner, in an account of one of his infamous "Knights of Malta" trips, states that even Saddam Hussein was "utterly convinced that Paul is a true prophet." And Joyner disputed it not.

In fact, Cain was a featured speaker at Joyner's April 2004 MorningStar Prophetic Equipping Conference, 2 weeks after being featured at a Prophesy-a-thon at Crouch's TBN. Off the spiritual radar scope for so long???

The Elijah List, regarding a September 2002 Albany Oregon Vineyard meeting, stated "Paul Cain was in such rare form --as a father and grandfather in the spirit." Well, within the last few weeks the Elijah List removed their "spiritual father" from the website's archive search engine, with no explanation or comment. Some family secrets are worth hiding.

And on the topic of revisionist history, according to one website, the original text of Joyner's press release read a bit different than the current text.

"The signs that these problems existed were abundant, and we had an obvious lack of discernment and failed to see them until this year."
The comment "an obvious lack of discernment" has been removed. Here's what makes this particularily disturbing. They (Joyner. Bickle and Deere) admit to knowing of these problems in February 2004. Yet Joyner had Cain as a featured speaker at his April 2004 prophetic conference, the same month in which they confronted him about the sin of sodomy. And Bickle quoted a "prophetic word" given by Cain regarding holiness - not gained by the fear of God but by simply spending time in the presence of God- in Bickle's book "After God's Own Heart" which was released in early 2004. Bickle gave much of this prominent chapter to Cain's word. How many sermons about David has this book inspired in recent times? For Cain's sake I would suggest that holiness brought on by sensual experiences (soaking prayer/marinating) leads to an openness to things sensual (sexual sin). Turn.

It boggles the mind to think how one could consider himself a "seer" when the Word states: without holiness no one will see the Lord. What then are they "seeing?"

Paul Cain has been at the forefront of the Manifested Son's of God movement embraced by Bickle, Joyner and Jones. He belives that God has granted special powers to his chosen (hoard of locusts) in these last days:

"No prophet or apostle who ever lived equaled the power of these individuals in this great army of the Lord in these last days. No one ever had it; not even Elijah or Peter or Paul or anyone else enjoyed the power that is going to rest upon this great army." -Paul Cain

Well, to their credit, neither Paul, Peter or Elijah were drunken sodomites. Enough is enough. Contrast the power-posturing of the Latter Rain church with this quote by Michael Horton (Power Religion, Moody Press)

"... the goal of Christian mission is not success, but faithful witness; not power, but proclamation; not technique, but truth; not method, but message."

Originally posted December 9, 2004

Leaving the Prophetic

"Today's prophets seem to talk a lot ABOUT the 'sword of the Lord' but never actually bring it to bear. They bring no piercing word."

Andrew Strom has been the moderator of a prophetic discussion list (800 members) for many years and is based in Kansas City. He is not what you would call hostile towards the prophetic, Holy Ghost, tounges or revival. He has a real heart for revival birthed from repentance preaching.


"Below are the SPECIFIC THINGS that God told me He has against this movement as a whole:

-The giving and receiving of "ear-tickling" words.
-The giving and receiving of money in expectation of prophecy.
-False words and false teaching.
-The lack of a true Repentance message.
-The spiritual 'blindness' that allows familiar spirits and spirits of divination to flourish.
-The failure of this movement to judge itself, meaning that God must judge it.
-The idolising of well-known prophets - placing them on a pedestal.
-And so on.... "


In light of recent events concerning Paul Cain, the prophetic father of this movement exposed as an alcoholic and homosexual in October) I find these first-hand reports from the New Jerusalem (Kansas City) to be most interesting. This is regarding a conference held there about a month ago.

Strom makes note of voodoo dancing at this conference. I actually saw an example of this on WAZT at about 1AM maybe 6 weeks ago. It was sickening to watch such demonic activity promoted as Christian. The leader of the conference now admits that the dances were immodest. Strom's comments concerning swordplay (knighting ceremonies) were also interesting since I have witnessed these firsthand.

Most significantly, his comments clearly echo those made by Derek Prince in a 3 part series "Deception in the Church" recorded before his death. transcript

In regard to the bu$ine$$ of prophecy, it is important to note that John Paul Jackson will now interpet your dreams via his website interpretmydreams.com for a fee. (According to the website, "A dream is considered to be 2000 characters in length. Anything longer will count as at least 2 dreams.") You can sign up, VISA card in hand, for various plans.

Sounds like Dionne Warwick to me.

Andrew Strom: Why I left the prophetic movement

Andrew Strom: Why I left the prophetic movement, Part II

Strom appears to be generally supportive of Mike Bickle (or at least Bickle's original vision for a Kansas City ministry) but not of the most recent transition towards the Latter Rain-esque "Tabernacle of David" (24/7 IHOP Harp and Bowl ministry).

The things he witnessed in Kansas City are the norm for those involved in he "higher level" spiritual activites of the Charismatic Church today. They are the direct result of teachings by Joyner, Jones, Wagner, Bickle and others, whose books are discussed in sunday school classes and for whom many in the church travel to their conferences and retreats.

Strom's conclusion: "Well, obviously, with great sadness we must now totally cut ourselves off from today's Prophetic Movement."


Originally posted December 8, 2004

Iron John?

"There's something wonderful about this developement- I mean the practice of men welcoming their own "feminine" consciousness and nurturing it..."

"The journey many American men have taken into softness, or receptivity, or 'developement of the feminine side,' has been an immensly valuable journey, but more travel lies ahead."

-Robery Bly, Author of Iron John, A Book about Men

"John Eldredge, author of Wild at Heart, has built his wild-heart paradigm on the works of Jungians like Robert Bly, Sam Keen, Brennan Manning, and other New Agers. Robert Bly, well-know for his (National best-seller) book "Iron John", could be described as a Freudian/Jungian, neo--pagan poet, was very popular in the burgeoning secular men's movement of the 1980s. For Bly, contemporary men have been submerged and repressed into being "nice guys" and have abandoned the old macho version of manhood. Bly's writings, favorably quoted in Eldredge, are near the center, if not actually the core, of Eldredge's view of what it means to be a real man with a wild heart."

more of this quote letusreason.org

Fan's of Eldredge, please don't get offended. I'm not anti "Wild at Heart," just reporting where the concept of Iron John came from. Personally, I'd rather let God remove some of my wildness than restore it, but if you are a wuss, you may need some help.

With this background established, it is not surprising to see some Charismatics now attributing feminine characteristics to God, and to man, and holding "Iron John" meetings. Robert Bly is the root.

Homosexual thelogy (amongst the religious ones) also typically supports the notion that man is both male and female. Perhaps this explains the propensity of big-time charismatic prophets to engage in sodomy.


For what it's worth, Chapter 5 of "Iron John" is titled "The Meeting with the God-Woman in the Garden". Bly has also written "The Maiden King: The Reunion of Masculine and Feminine."

Don Clasen, in his seminal (no pun intended) work "My Eight Years with the Kansas City Prophets" mentioned Bickle's overbearing emphasis on the Song of Solomon and the allegory about Christ and His Bride. Says Clasen, "The idea conveyed in the teachings and worship I witnessed went beyond the Biblical idea of a collective Church, to an implication that each individual believer is a "bride". As a man especially, I felt very embarrassed by such effeminate sentiments, in both the teaching and worship expressions."

Without endorsing the works of Clausen, or letusreason.org, they raise some good points. "Kansas City, here we come".


Originally posted December 7, 2004