Friday, October 12, 2007

KCF- Kansas City Finances

updated Match 14, 2008



I need to state up front that my problems with Mike Bickle's organizations stem from doctrinal issues and not his handling of finances. At least not what we know of his handling of finances.

Others have suggested there might be trouble in the New Jerusalem. So let's do a cursory review for their sake.

Any para-church organization that has grown this big (>$13 million annual income) should be subject to close inspection, closer than I can give here. Most such organizations this big, in order to gain the confidence of their contributors, would subscribe to groups such as the ECFA. Not this group.

When we discuss the Bickle franchises it makes sense to start with the most visible, IHOP. That's the International House of Prayer. Pancakes need not apply.



If you will go to guidestar.org, and sign up for a free account, you can look at IRS Form 990s for International House of Prayer; the most recent being 2005.

As some have suggested, the money issues are very complicated. The IHOP finances appear to be principally the passing through of "prayer missionary" funding to the tune of 3 million annually. IHOP has virtually no equipment or property other than a few items of A/V equipment (which means their facilities are rented from other Bickel franchises or others).

Apparently, if you are a "prayer missionary" at IHOP, you are expected to raise your own support. Your sponsors, to gain a tax benefit, give the money to IHOP with a post-it note on the check stating who it is for. IHOP then uses that for your support. On the surface it appears that nothing is wrong with that, if you are comfortable with the concept of "prayer missionary." It's a simple IN/OUT operation, a sort of heavenly "money laundering."

Most people are not aware that charitable donations to a 501(c)3 are not tax deductable in certain cases where a designation for that giving is made. Paraphrasing Keith Hamilton, CFP, in his guide on Designated Fund Management he says:

Contributions designated to an individual within the church (i.e. a prayer missionary) for the individual's exclusive use and under its total control is not a deductible contribution to the church. (The missionary is not a 501(c)(3) organization.) The church cannot add the designated contribution to the donor’s contribution statement because the church does not have any control over the contribution.

Thus, the practice of making an extra "offering" to a church so that the church can in turn support a Christian School student with a "scholarship" reducing a specific student (implied by the one making the "offering") so that the donor can, in effect, make the tuition tax deductable is not permitted.

Obviously IHOP is aware of the dynamic, or they would not instruct the donor to use a post-it note in lieu of the memo line.

An understanding that so much of the money coming in and out of IHOP is related to these designateds funds is needed to make sense of the IHOP tax filings.

2005 IHOP form 990

2006 IHOP form 990



HOWEVER, the form 990 for IHOP does list related orgs under common board control.

You will find listed there Friends of the Bridegroom and Shiloh Ministries, Inc. On the FOTB return you will then see Grace Ministries listed.


2005 FOTB form 990

2006 FOTB form 990

2005 Shiloh form 990

2006 Shiloh form 990


Shiloh is a relatively small aspect of the Bickle empire. It was originally intended as a retreat center for wounded prophets, and was headed up the wounded prophet Paul Cain. Shiloh lists two properties- a 300K retreat center and a 700K "legacy house."

FOTB's 990 is where Allen Hood and Bob Fraser salaries are listed, and they are payments to them for their work with IHOP. Also David Silker and Dale Anderson. You cannot separate the two orgs; it is one org with 2 checking accounts. Or 3. Or more.



What is tremedously disturbing about the FOTB return is you will see (2006) 2.8 million in contract labor listed, including $893,827 in contract management fees. A huge increase over 2005, BTW. The IRS typically frowns on using a lot of contract labor, in this case it appears that almost all the work at FOTB (aside from IHOP missionaries) is done by contractors. Typically, in business, this is done to avoid payroll taxes, it may also be done to avoid having to list payments to certain individuals. At the very least, the payment for labor with 70% of it through contractors is very odd indeed.

The IRS tests of an independent contractor is very rigorous - you cannot tell them when to work or how to do the work. How an org like this could function with this much work being contracted (out of their control) is a real question.

IRS contractor rules

The FOTB returns also show monies to Mike Bickle's wife for real estate management, and (2006) $12,000 to an "officer's brother" for a benevolent need. Preumably the same one who recieved $6000 the previous year. These activities are LEGAL; the reason they are required to be listed is because they raise questions. Questions, anyone?

The IHOP proponent over on the SOJ blog who said IHOP was a small organization fails to recognize that the combined revenue income of IHOP, FOTB, and Shiloh is probably around 13 Million annually. This excludes unknown revenue through Grace Ministries and through Bob Fraser end-times investment schemes. It's not Wall Street, but its not small.

An unknown factor is the effect of IHOP's recent liason with GOD TV. States one IHOP blogger:

"God TV is convinced that they can bring our monthly subscriptions to the 24/7 live webstream up to 1 million. At $10/month, 1 million subscriptions means $10 million coming into the IHOP missions base. Mike is excited about what this means in enabling thousands of intercessory missionaries to do this full-time."

That blogger worries about the effect that that much more money and exposure will have on IHOP. And that's coming from the inside.

So what conclusions can be drawn? Honestly, at this point, not much. There is a lot of smoke-and-mirrors. We do not see the type of wealth-flaunting that has been seen with many other ministries. Bickle himself reportedly lives a rather simple lifestyle.

I think the biggest questions all point back to the Joseph Company investment schemes, which probably are buried in yet another organization's returns. One of those related organizations is "Deeper Waters" which recieves interest from FOTB and owns the property used by the Forerunner School of Music.

2005 Form 990 Deeper Waters

Mike Bickle teaches about experiencing "power encounters in finances." Bickle's Joseph COmpany cohort Bob Frazier sums its all up when he talks about the "God-ordained transfers of wealth and power" from the ungodly:

"The Treasure Bringers are those with an anointing from God to facilitate this massive wealth-transfer."

"They are spiritual 'Robin Hoods.' Their greatest joy is plundering the wealth of the world for their Lord."


Plundering. Need any more be said?

49 comments:

  1. Very interesting analysis. I would expect as much from you.

    ReplyDelete
  2. funny how the 'treasure bringers' never seem to bring that treasure with those who actually need it...

    This was a really interesting article, Bill :) Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  3. I would like to know if the IRS has looked in on IHOP. On Mr.Bickle, on Mr. Hood.

    I would also like to know how many attendees there are financially stable - i.e. are they on welfare, or are they visiting local food banks?
    And what happens to the "support" if someone forgets to apply a sticky note?

    ReplyDelete
  4. I would just like to chime in here and say I think it is mildly unfair to quote a random IHOP blogger as a support to you "concerns". I feel like your quote and following conclusion was taken a bit out of context and the point you are attempting to support is not the one the blogger was trying to make.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Well, as I stated, the GOD TV stuff is an unknown factor. Give it a few years and well have the financials on that, too.

    That's the least of my concerns.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I've found out the following...

    1. approximately 5.75 million in property holdings.

    2. The loans I've found total 5.1 million.

    3. Their tax bills that I could find are nearly 90K a year. In addition to their loan payments.

    My interest stems from a dear friend who has become involved there. I need to be able to go to the mat with them.

    So far, I can find nothing illegal I don't think I will. They think they are right to acquire so much. But, that's a lot of debt to incur for an institution like IHOP. One scandal and their donations dry up, and it's all gone. Seems like a fine line to walk to me.

    I have documentation if you want it. I'm most interested in their latest big acquisition. I can find no financing for it. I can't figure that out. It's a big hunk of their tax bill, but no financing. They just bought it in January. hmmm. Will have to dig more.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Amanda,

    A lot of their interest is in real estate, much of that handled by Mrs. Bickle off the FOTB/IHOP books.

    The tax bill would most likely relate to properties that they may be renting. This is known as "UBIT"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrelated_Business_Income_Tax

    The interest in real estate probably relates to the concept of building cities of habitation as spelled out in the "Blueprint Prophecy"

    More information on that in Ernie Gruen's report which is reference in our right column links.

    I would not be surprized to see Shiloh retrate center rolled into their books now that Paul Cain isn't (mis)using it anymore.

    Email me direct if you have any more information.

    -Bill

    fawcetwd2001@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  8. please do better3/12/08, 5:02 PM

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Yes IHOP has seen 3 million dollars go through the system. care to know why??

    Or would you rather make false assumptions?

    We have 500 people on staff, and put on 15 major conferences around the U.S. I don;t charge admission for anything, including the Onething conference which alone costs us 250,000 just in equipment.

    Th 500 hundred people on staff, all of their money that they raise has to pass through IHOP so that it can be under IHOP's 501 C3 so that donators can get a tax deduction. It then get paid to the missionary the next week.

    Oh and the transfer of wealth is about prospierty. Mike lives in a smal 2 bedroom duplex, and all of us have taken a vow not to live outside our means.

    the transfer of wealth thing is Haggai 2 money coming to the Church for the purpose of spreading the gospel.

    Wanna know why YWAM and others aren't as effective as they could be? They can't even buy enough bibles or support thier missionaries. Missionaris can't raise enough money to live so they end up quitting and a new group has to take over thus no consistantsy.

    Mike rebukes the prosperity gospel with the same vigor that Piper does. Except Mike calls it a "doctrine of demons".

    Please know what you are talking about before you decide to go digging into things you know nothing about.

    God Bless you!

    ReplyDelete
  9. pdb:

    WOW, talk about a knee-jerk reaction. You've made a lot of assumptions but have not refuted anything in this article. The article was less about the theology of IHOP and more about a cursory review of theit finances, which a held to public scruntity by the IRS.

    You did make one interesting statement: "Th(e) 500 hundred people on staff, all of their money that they raise has to pass through IHOP so that it can be under IHOP's 501 C3 so that donators can get a tax deduction. It then get paid to the missionary the next week."

    I am guess that you are aware that you cannot make a tax-exempt donation for a SPECIFIED pass-thru, yet IHOP encourages this practice with advice such as - DONT write the "missionaries" name on the check, instead place it on a post-it note.

    Of course they don't want it in the check- that would draw the IRS's attention.

    So the practice is illegal. I guess that really brings God's blessing, eh?

    >Mike lives in a smal 2 bedroom duplex, and all of us have taken a vow not to live outside our means.

    Read the article again. Didn't I state "Bickle himself seems to live a rather simple lifestyle."

    You know, my fear is that "money corrupts." People whose "greatest joy is plundering the wealth of the world for their Lord" need to have their heads (hearts) examined.

    Thnaks for joining in on the converstaion.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Simply put IHOP is a cult, their leaders are seeking wealth and their teaching are twisted.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Broad Meadow10/29/08, 3:50 PM

    Most of you pompous windbags who chastise Mike are not worthy to clean gum off of his shoes. But I know this. He would scrape poo off of yours just to serve you. I've been following Mike around since 1983 and the man practices what he preaches. And what he preaches it first and foremost humility and passion for loving God.

    If Mike was after money, he sure has a funny way of showing it. He give everything away. All of it. He lives in a part of town that I don't even like to visit. His duplex is small and utilitarian.

    Oh and for your fall festival scare: Boo. Oh, that didn't scare you. How about: Prophet! Oh yeah, your shakin now! How about: LATTER RAIN! Yeah, I knew you'd run from that one. Get over yourselves you bloated scoffers who clean the outside of the cup but neglect the inside!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hey "B.M."

    Thanks for stopping by. Feel free to add anything to the conversation that you think might be constructive. So far, I'm not too impressed.

    -Bill

    ReplyDelete
  13. B.M.

    Your assumption that Mike's kindliness, and his humble lifestyle make it okay to mislead thousands of young people with his questionable teachings is ludicrous. Exhibiting humility toward others does not cancel out our responsibility as God's people to discern and to teach His truth as He intended.

    Not to mention the undue financial hardship IHOP's policies place upon these kids that they require 24-7 commitment from, forcing them to beg for support, and even use food stamps. A ministry that claims so much of their time that these kids are often unable to provide for even their most basic needs, needs to re-examine it's own financial commitment in light of God's word.

    Perhaps a little bit better redistribution of the wealth by the treasure bringers is in order here. In Bob Frazier's own words:

    "The Treasure Bringers are those with an anointing from God to facilitate this massive wealth-transfer."

    "They are spiritual 'Robin Hoods.' Their greatest joy is plundering the wealth of the world for their Lord."

    How about plundering a little of their own so at least the 24-7 prayer missionaries of IHOP can eat properly?

    ReplyDelete
  14. To 'Please do better' and 'Broad Meadow',
    You are very loyal to Mr. Bickle. Or is it that something in this blog is hitting a little too close to home? I've got a family member in IHOP - oh yes, a "prayer missionary" (unlike the rest of us who just pray all the time but don't get paid to do it).. but there's a lot of moola flowing into IHOP and if the ministry has nothing to hide, then the IRS should be able to do a candid fly through and no one should be any the worse for it. Right?

    My question is how does Mr. Bickle get the IHOPpers themselves to give sacrificially when a great majority of them are already visiting the local KC food banks?

    Just a litte "food for thought" there...

    SP

    ReplyDelete
  15. As a former IHOP intern I can attest to the amount of money that flows into IHOP purely from their internship programs alone. This does not include Forerunner School of Ministry students and the many other programs that are designed for "gaining financial support from FOTB partners". As an intern, my "tuition" was $4,500 for 6 months. I was one of 6 women squeezed into a 2-bedroom apartment (Hernnhut which IHOP also owns). Meals were provided except on mandatory fasting days and the prayer room is already free to the public. So $4,500 per person basically covered an electric bill, food and some books. I was one of 75 interns so that's some major $$$. I was affiliated with Bickle's ministry for 13 years so you can imagine the culture shock of seeing it for what it was and getting out when I discovered that I had invested my life, energy, time and resources in a cult that was leaving a trail of damaged lives and families in its dust. Thank you so much for writing this blog. People have a right to know the truth...even if they turn a deaf ear and deny it. Numbers don't lie.

    ReplyDelete
  16. So far I'm not hearing anything in the presentation given that makes me think that IHOP has any foul play or ill intent.

    I'm not saying there aren't things that probably could be improved, but I think this blog post is intended to raise questions and does not really have any final answers.

    As a business owner, I switched to contract labor for a variety of reasons and I actually commend IHOP for doing the same.

    I've attended IHOP's church for about 5 years and also gone to the school for a little over a year.

    My analysis of the place and people in leadership did not reveal any foul play or reason to bring them under scrutiny. Not being a mindless agreeable type like many people, I feel that my view is fairly objective.

    If something truly came out to bring the place into question I suspect it would be as big a surprise to people as with any other organization.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Scared hurt people, scare and hurt people...

    People are flawed and do fail every day. NO man is above reproach. Yet instead of praying for these men, who everyone here agrees is pursuing high mark for Christ, you are divisivly seeking there destruction. Judge not lest ye be judged with the same measure. Try experiencing the manifest presence of God once in your life and then go and judge by what Spirit they minister. Give testiment to that and I would attune my ear.

    Men and woman are hurt, dissalusioned and/or fall away from the plan and purpose of God daily. Does that make His purposes any less valuable or His plans unworthy of our pursuit?

    I have partaken of there ministry from a distance for years and I can attest by which Spirit they come. I don't know the individuals or there personal spending accounts but I can judge the annointing. I can see the effect of the ministry reaching beyond any building or individual because its not about those things its about becoming abandoned for the cause of Christ. Releasing yourself from the grasp of this world to except a Kingdom outside the realm of rational thought.

    May God be True and every man a liar!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Thanks so much for you comments. Is there anything that needs to be corrected in the article? I'd be glad to fix it if you would be so kind.

    I'm curious about your comment "Try experiencing the manifest presence of God once in your life." What does this mean? Is there something I am missing in my Christian walk? Please tell me more, because I want all that God has for me.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Thank you for your posting. I need to add that you have only touched the tip of it. I was part of IHOP-KC and part of the direct leadership. What I saw and experienced first hand made me question my own worth as a Christian. What could I do, I was in too deep. Even when I fiund out Mike and Dianne had another home huge home in Belton I stayed quiet. Even when I found out how much the upper management was making and the lies they would share in the pulpit I stayed quiet. Its all a scam, it is a cult and meanwhile they prey on the young students and focus on that age since they are easier to control. Heaven forbid the older Christians would question the doctrines being taught and eventually would turn the place upside down. The Gospel is twisted the leaders are under a witchcraft spirit, the spirit of control. Unless you are solid in Christ when you enter this ministry and seek truth through the cross do you have a chance of walking away from this deception. Money? I counted the money folks during conferences and Sunday multiple services they make in one service to pay for 3 bartle hall events and then some...how people and I could be so convinced this was okay is wrong. How I could see what the donations were being used for and how the students and your Church was being treated and I did nothing. Jesus Son of David have mercy on me, Mike Bickle, Allen Hood, David Sliker, Corey Russell, Julie Meyer, the worship rockstar wannabes...the Walsh family that would have Derek Prince rolling from his grave if he knew how they were doing deliverance, the paid staff that now but are too scared to speak out because would that mean they too would be asked to leave and they can't clain unemployment they are techically volunteering and doing internships and not really working. What lies, what scams...help me Abba to expose what is really happening help me God give me the strength to do what I must do. Knowing you have forgiven me and that you want to set your people free.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Thank you for your posting. I need to add that you have only touched the tip of it. I was part of IHOP-KC and part of the direct leadership. What I saw and experienced first hand made me question my own worth as a Christian. What could I do, I was in too deep. Even when I fiund out Mike and Dianne had another home huge home in Belton I stayed quiet. Even when I found out how much the upper management was making and the lies they would share in the pulpit I stayed quiet. Its all a scam, it is a cult and meanwhile they prey on the young students and focus on that age since they are easier to control. Heaven forbid the older Christians would question the doctrines being taught and eventually would turn the place upside down. The Gospel is twisted the leaders are under a witchcraft spirit, the spirit of control. Unless you are solid in Christ when you enter this ministry and seek truth through the cross do you have a chance of walking away from this deception. Money? I counted the money folks during conferences and Sunday multiple services they make in one service to pay for 3 bartle hall events and then some...how people and I could be so convinced this was okay is wrong. How I could see what the donations were being used for and how the students and your Church was being treated and I did nothing. Jesus Son of David have mercy on me, Mike Bickle, Allen Hood, David Sliker, Corey Russell, Julie Meyer, the worship rockstar wannabes...the Walsh family that would have Derek Prince rolling from his grave if he knew how they were doing deliverance, the paid staff that now but are too scared to speak out because would that mean they too would be asked to leave and they can't clain unemployment they are techically volunteering and doing internships and not really working. What lies, what scams...help me Abba to expose what is really happening help me God give me the strength to do what I must do. Knowing you have forgiven me and that you want to set your people free.

    ReplyDelete
  21. To Anonymous - If you are genuine then the information you have is critical. I urge you to contact the good brother who runs 'Beyond Grace' and allow him to communicate with you. You can certainly do this in a confidential manner - but if you can substantiate your charges you will potentially have a key that will help to expose IHOP as a dangerous movement subverting authentic Christian faith. The thing that is so important, from my perspective is salvaging the young people who are the principal target of IHOP. Please friend, if you are for real..consider a personal contact to Bill Fawcett and the possibility of telling your complete story. You could do a great service to the body of Christ by just telling the story,

    ReplyDelete
  22. I wish to second News From Brazil's plea to the above anonymous person. So many persons who are sitting on the fence and are questioning their involvement with IHOP may have the information they need to walk away if your information would become public. So many people are suffering, spiritually, due to the teachings they have learned there. I am praying for you Anonymous. God bless you, my friend.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Bill Fawcett BeyondGrace Blog email is fawcetwd@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  24. I will please give me some time. I myself am working out so much of the bondage that I was entrapped in for so long, seeking even more of the truth in the scriptures and the finished work of the cross. I will, please continue to pray for me and others to come forth. I live only blocks from the prayer room and am surrounded by all of these IHOPers daily, I sold everything and purchased a house here for me and my family and they know I am no longer part of their witchcraft cult. They believe I am the one that has been deceived, no so many others it is unreal...

    ReplyDelete
  25. I know of several people who will be praying for you. Bless You!

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous,

    I was formerly a part of Mike Bickle's original church here in Kansas City and left when the finished work of the cross became life to me. If you have any desire to get together, you may obtain my email address from the host of this blog. You are regularly on my heart and I am praying for you. Take care, my friend.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Posting for WB

    I think NOLR is probably right in seeing the North Battleford Revival as the kicking off point for contemporary hyper-Charismaticism. It's possible to demonstrate not only common erroneous doctrines but also mentoring relationships, etc. The case for relationship to the Kabbalah and Leade is too weak to seriously consider, IMO, despite some common erroneous doctrines.

    But, that all scarcely matters. The errors of hyper-Charismaticism are not erroneous because they recapitulate earlier errors. They're errors because they don't line up with Scripture. When we focus on communicating what the Scripture says, either as exegesis or theology, we always win because God's program is all about His revelation of Himself. When we take time out to explain the intricacies of, say, Christadelphianism we don't enjoy similar advantage. And, moreover, we're then selling two arguments when one will do.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Regarding the assertion that Bickle maintains a 2nd lavish residence, please see this article:

    http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2011/04/mike-bickle-second-home.html

    I'm not defending Bikcle, I'm just sayin....

    ReplyDelete
  29. All I know is my daughter attended there and is at this moment in a mental institution as we are working on de-programming the skewed beliefs she came home with...

    ReplyDelete
  30. To: Anonymous
    who said...
    "All I know is my daughter attended there and is at this moment in a mental institution as we are working on de-programming the skewed beliefs she came home with... "

    I would like to talk to you. This is an alarming growing trend. Pleae email me at sheepamongthewolves@yahoo.com

    There is something you can do legally that I would like to talk to you about.
    thanks!
    TS

    ReplyDelete
  31. Get this: Town where IHOP reside had a town meeting their concerns this being a cult which it is.

    A lot of ministries are worth billions, own lot's of property and the people don't question what they do with the money, lack of helping the poor,fatherless, widow, orphans, single parents/children, homeless etc.,
    Also, your not getting the entire Bible true worship and prayer, NOT being told how=man, carnal=flesh=witchcraft. People still tithe, attend and can't get unbrainwashed and think for yourself. God doesn't get any money, nor the poor and when you ask for help they'll say they'll pray for you as they preyed on you alright or refer you to welfare. TBN, B Hinn, Schuller, Chuck Smith are worth billions and no one order's their 501c3 report since inception.
    Google: William Lobdell and watch his 63 minute video exposing corruption, along with Wittenburg Door, InPlainSite.org etc.,

    ReplyDelete
  32. NCRETE AND ORGANIZED THAT ALL THOSE POST . YOU
    KNOW IN POSTING PEOPLE CAN LIE OR OVEREACT ABOUT SOMETHING .I NEED TO
    KNOW FACTS .

    MY HUSBAND AND I CAME TO THE USFROM COSTA RICA TO SAVE MONEY AND GO
    TO IHOP .WE STILL WANT TO GO. WE HAVENT BEEN THERE MORE THAN ONCE BUT
    IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS GROWN IN OUR HEARTS WE ARE HUNGRY FOR THE
    PRAYER MOVEMENT AND WORSHIP AND IF WE ARE MAKING A MISTAKE WE REALLY
    NEED TO KNOW . MIKE CAN HAVE TWO HOUSES IF HE WANTS IF HE IS DOING THE
    WILL OF GOD. I AM MORE CONCERN ABOUT THEOLOGY ISSUES. I DO BELIEVE IN
    THE HOLY SPIRIT ,GIFTS AND DELIVERANCE ,THEY ARE IN THE BIBLE . I AM
    CHARISMATIC ,SO THAT DOES NOT CONVINCE ME. I WANT TO KNOW WHERE ARE
    THEY MISINTERPRETING THE BIBLE AND HURTING THE CHURCH

    PLEASE THIS COULD AFFECT THE DECISIONS WE MAKE IN A FEW MONTHS write here annel.benderp@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  33. I agree with you about the houses- I published this article in response to rumore floating around. I too think its a non-issue.

    We have posted many, many different articles about IHOP. Please see out IHOP Resource page.

    http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/p/mike-bickle-ihop-resource-page.html

    I would especially suggest "the Perils of Passion", "harp and Bowl" and the "Third wave incarnation" as good starting points.

    ReplyDelete
  34. What I would like to see but haven't as yet is a point by point theological evaluation of how IHOP's theology is at odds with orthodox Christian doctrine backed up by Scripture. Correct me if I am wrong but as far as the fundamentals of the Christian Faith, IHOP is solidly evangelical and it is only in non-essential matters that are widely held to be true by most Pentecostals and Charismatics that are the bones of contention. If that is the case, you would have to extend cult status to the vast company of Christian brethren worldwide that consider themselves Pentecostal or Charismatic. Are you ready to do that in fairness to IHOP?
    Also, if I may be permitted to comment on finances. I am presently working with a ministry that has been positively influenced by IHOP. We presently have about 100 full and part time staff, all of whom either raise full support or work part time at a secular job. The vast majority come in through a four month intern program during which they are clearly informed as to what to expect from the ministry and what the ministry expects from them. Part of this orientation involves over 30 hours of fund raising training. during this training mostly gleaned from YWAM and Campus Crusade for Christ material the emphasis is on building friendship with donors and clearly communicating the vision of 24/7 prayer. the point in all of this is the interns and staff are given effective tools for raising support and are not just left to fend for themselves with other starving IHOP'ers in an overcrowded apartment. Those serving on staff are free to leave at any time and to my knowledge no one is or has ever been coerced, intimidated or otherwise manipulated into staying. I served in localchurch pastoral ministry for over twenty three years and I can honestly say that the staff of mostly young adults are some of the hardest working, joyful, lovers of Jesus tha I have ever had the privilege of working with. The dedication, depth and passion of their intercessions before the Throne of Grace has more than once reduced me to tears of joy! "The laborer is worthy of his hire." These young people are doing the work of intercessory prayer a vital work for the Kingdom which the Church at large has nearly abandoned! Should they not be allowed to raise support? Have you ever listened to the prayers in the IHOP prayer room? That heart and passion for the lost and the nations of the world is not the fruit of a cult!
    Permit me to vent a little. What disturbs me about the plethora of evangelical witch hunters on the web is that not one that I am aware of has ever taken the time to address issues they might have directly with Mike Bickle or his staff . You may be the exception, if so I apologize. Although I have never had personal contact with Mike Bickle, I have had the priviledge spending considerable time with Alan Hood, Cory Russel, Sam Storms and others and have found them to be exemplary in their walk with the Lord, in their devotion to hours spent in the Word and personal prayer and in their passion to raise up a generation of heartsick lovers of God.
    Have you ever discussed financial partnership program with Rob Parker or doctrine with David Sliker? These are your brothers in Christ whether you acknowledge them as such, I can assure you God does! They deserve better than this kind of treatment. I challenge you to approach them personally in love with your concerns. They are not afraid to defend their position Biblically. "If your brother offend you, first go to your brother."
    I apologize if i have been offensive, but the ones you write about are men I love and whose lives and teachings have powerfully confirmed the testimony of Christ in my own heart. I honestly don't feel you selfapponted judges of another man's servant are approaching this redemptively in the Spirit of God's love.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is a book out called "Wondering Stars" by Keith Gibson. It will inform you of the heresy of Mike Bickle. God Bless you

      Delete
  35. "....generation of heartsick lovers of God."""


    ?????????????????????

    WHAT I THIS????

    I have never seen this in scripture EXCEPT in the teaching of the Bridal Paradigm and any charismatic/pentecostal I know who teach in Biblically based bible colleges or seminaries will say this is not a correct interpretation of the Son of Solomon. I don't get this "lovesick" stuff???
    TJH

    ReplyDelete
  36. Bowie,

    Obviously I do not hold the distinctives of the Charismatic / Pentecostal movement to be cultish; you should know me to be part of this as we met, I believe, at a Vision Quest event- I think Ernest C. brought you to. For the record, I am Pentecostal, and no I do not consider Pentecostals in general to be in error, although I differ with oneness Pentecostals for good reason.

    However, I will say that the Charismatic church of today is not the charismatic church I grew up with. The constant pressure for a "new thing" has driven that. It feeds on itself and gets further and further from scripture every day, with "new revelation" held above "stale manna" (the bible).

    It is not "solidly evangelical" for the leader of a movement to claim that he has visited heaven, but it certainly lends authority to his "revelations." :)

    I'm not certain that I have ever called IHOP a cult, but certainly not in this article. So what's that all about?

    This article was not meant to be a doctrinal evalauation, more than anything it was to illustrate the prominence ($$$) of the 24/7 prayer movement.

    But doctinally, I would have to differ with Mike Bickle, who claims that this 24/7 prayer thing is God's direction for the church which will be "changed in one generation." He builds an elite class of christians (unscriptural) and has built it on the rotten foundation of the ever-changing "Blueprint prophecy" and the rotten foundational "prophets" Bob Jones, Augustine Alcala, and Paul Cain.

    I have always been willing to discuss things with anyone from IHOP. Their culture, and their teachings, tell them not not entertain such discussions with "rabid dogs" (their term for anyone who disagrees. And this is carried over to all of their followers - a youngster from FPF once called me a "scoffer" which apparently is also on the list of IHOP discussion stoppers.

    I will say that public statements and public teachings DEMAND public response. If its is put out there for the visible church to consider, it should be considered in the Berean manner.

    If we applied Mathhew 18 "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone" then you have just violated it as well. But seriously, Mike Bickle has not trespassed (sinned) against me personally, so I am not instructed to tell him "his fault between thee and him alone." Again, I am responding to public teachings and practices.

    The links above in the comment section will provide some of the doctrinal differences which as NOT solidly evangelical.

    In the spirit of discussion, and honing in on the issues discussed in the article, please tell me if you approve of the IHOP practice of dodging the designated funds rule (IRS) by using a post-it note on the check instead of writing it in on the memo line. Do you approve? Does Fredericksburg Prayer Furnace also use this technique?

    ReplyDelete
  37. Regarding the foundations of what we know today as IHOP (was KCF) Derek Prince had this to say: "the material circulated by KCF contains many statements which have no basis in Scripture and are frequently contrary to Scripture." He called some of the revelations "absurd and even blasphemous," and warned that "much of the material is permeated by what I consider to be occult influence."

    http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2011/09/mike-bickle-transported-to-heaven.html

    "IHOP is solidly evangelical" ???

    ReplyDelete
  38. Bowie,

    You stated that IHOP is solidly evangelical. The following is a link to scriptures that exort/confirm the necessity to preach the gospel. Has it been your experience that this is the fundamental message preached? Jesus + all the apostles declared the necessity to do so. Does Mike Bickle's belief that God would change the face of Christianity in one generation mean that the preaching of the gospel is no longer necessary?

    http://www.densu.com/gospel.html

    Julie

    ReplyDelete
  39. erypion `I'm not sure what the Prayer Furnace's policy is regarding designation to an individual using post-it notes. i'll check into it. As I recall, the purpose for the designated funds rule was to prevent the misuse of funds by an individual that were given to a church or other non-profit. in this case the funds are clearly intended for a certwin individual and no effort is being made to avoid paying taxes on taxable income. I'll look into this more carefully, I'm certainly not in agreement with breaking the law.
    How do you feel missionary support could better be administrated to be above reproach?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Obviously, making a direct designated contribution on the memo line or on-line and let the tax laws apply as thay may.

    This is an older article; I do not know if the post-it note trick is still done in Kansas City, but at the time the printed instruction were pretty emphatic.

    ReplyDelete
  41. I might add that I do not see the full-time paryer missionary, living on donor support- to be consistent with the NT concept of the priesthood of ALL believers. ALL are told to pray without ceasing. As Scott Pursley has noted in the following article, IHOP apprears to create an elite class of believers, call them forerunners or gatekeepers or whatever.

    http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2011/02/ihop-perils-of-passion.html

    ReplyDelete
  42. We don't nor ever have used the post-it notes. Each staff member has an envelop in the office. Checks are sent directly to them at their residence. The staff members place their checks in the envelopes and they are processed by the office staff twice a month. This is legal according to our accountant. Once again, the spirit of the rule is to prevent an individual from misappropriating funds intended for church use or to avoid paying taxes on a designated gift. All of Our staff pays a full tax on what they receive.
    As to receiving support for their ministry...
    Receiving support allows them to devote themselves to a ministry that is vital for the extension of the Kingdom but is sadly greatly neglected by the vast majority of Body of Christ. That is not elitism. They do what they do because they sense the call to day and night intercession. If the Church were fulfilling her call and responsibility to "pray without ceasing", the Lord would not have to raise up para-church ministries. YWAM, Campus Crusade for Christ, Operation Mobilization have all acknowledged publically that if the Church were truly fulfilling the Great Commission they probably would'nt exist.

    ReplyDelete
  43. To Julie...

    mike Bickle's comment that God would change the face of Christianity in one generation in no way implied there would no longer be any need to preach the Gospel! That would be heresy of the highest order! AS long as there is the possibility of a soul being saved and until every people group has had the opportunity to hear and receive the Gospel the gospel will be preached. What Bickle meant was that an impotent Prayerless Church would become a powerful praying Church. The present Church is anything but a sharp threshing instrument. To become God's instrument for gathering the end time harvest the church will have to undergo profound change. Praying without ceasing is surely one of those changes!

    ReplyDelete
  44. 2. Pray without ceasing, v. 17. Note, The way to rejoice evermore is to pray without ceasing. We should rejoice more if we prayed more. We should keep up stated times for prayer, and continue instant in prayer. We should pray always, and not faint: pray without weariness, and continue in prayer, till we come to that world where prayer shall be swallowed up in praise. The meaning is not that men should do nothing but pray, but that nothing else we do should hinder prayer in its proper season. Prayer will help forward and not hinder all other lawful business, and every good work.
    ---------------
    "Pray without ceasing."—1 Thessalonians 5:17.

    THE POSITION OF OUR TEXT is very suggestive. Observe what it follows. It comes immediately after the precept, "Rejoice evermore;" as if that command had somewhat staggered the reader, and made him ask "How can I always rejoice?" and, therefore, the apostle appended as answer, "Always pray." The more praying the more rejoicing. Prayer gives a channel to the pent-up sorrows of the soul, they flow away, and in their stead streams of sacred delight pour into the heart. At the same time the more rejoicing the more praying; when the heart is in a quiet condition, and full of joy in the Lord, then also will it be sure to draw nigh unto the Lord in worship. Holy joy and prayer act and react upon each other.

    Observe, however, what immediately follows the text: "In everything give thanks." When joy and prayer are married their first born child is gratitude.

    Those three texts are three companion pictures, representing the life of a true Christian, the central sketch is the connecting link between those on either side. These three precepts are an ornament of grace to every believer's neck, wear them every one of you, for glory and for beauty; "Rejoice evermore;" "Pray without ceasing;" "in everything give thanks."

    It is equally clear that the posture of prayer is of no great importance, for if it were necessary that we should pray on our knees we could not pray without ceasing, the posture would become painful and injurious

    It is clear, too, from the text, that the place is not essential to prayer, for if there were only certain holy places where prayer was acceptable, and we had to pray without ceasing, our churches ought to be extremely large, that we might always live in them, and they would have to comprise all the arrangements necessary for human habitations.

    "Pray without ceasing." That precept at one stroke overthrows the idea of particular times wherein prayer is more acceptable or more proper than at others. If I am to pray without ceasing, then every second must be suitable for prayer, and there is not one unholy moment in the hour, nor one unaccepted hour in the day, nor one unhallowed day in the year. The Lord has not appointed a certain week for prayer, but all weeks should be weeks of prayer: neither has he said that one hour of the day is more acceptable than another. All time is equally legitimate for supplication, equally holy, equally accepted with God, or else we should not have been told to pray without ceasing.

    There is one other thing implied in the text, namely, that a Christian has no right to go into any place where he could not continue to pray. Pray without ceasing? Then I am never to be in a place where I could not pray without ceasing.


    TJH

    ReplyDelete
  45. To become God's instrument for gathering the end time harvest the church will have to undergo profound change.

    Please give me verses that support an end time harvest..

    TJH

    ReplyDelete
  46. Bowie,
    Thank you for responding, and my apologies to Bill for my off topic comment.

    The reason I ask about the preaching of the gospel, is because Mike Bickle NEVER preached this message in the 80's, to the best of my recollection. Also, those whom I know personally who currently attend IHOP, and have also been involved in the handful of churches Mike has led, they never articulate their adherence to the Gospel. They speak on dreams and visions; emphasize that we are in an end time prayer movement; discuss at length God's dependence on the praying church to usher in the kingdom, etc, etc. However, Jesus death, burial, and resurrection isn't even mentioned. If the Gospel is as important in these circles as you say, I would expect it to be preached and discussed quite frequently, not only by Mike, but also his congregants. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Bowie,
    That sounds like a good idea for your blog. :)

    I try to keep the discussion focused, and although some anecdotal stories are occasionally featured, many more are rejected because I cannot confirm them in my limited time. As I do not have monthly supporters sending in checks but instead work two jobs, teach bible twice a week, play on a worship team, and train dogs in my "spare" time, it would he hard to verify positive or negative accounts. And I have spent hundreds of hours on research.

    Getting away from "experiences" and delving into fact, did you have a chance to look at the many versions of the blueprint propehcy?

    Does God revise propehtic words?
    Can prophetic words be given by God and yet portions of that word be witheld from the judgement of the church?

    Kindly reply on the Blueprint Prophecy page.


    ReplyDelete
  48. Hi Julie, I realize its been a while since you posted but this was a very interesting blog in that it has gone on for over 5 years. I have heard Allen Hood preach the cross better then just about anybody ever. I also recall another man who preached there years ago, Gary Weins, who ministered the father heart of God in excellence. The cross is preached clearly by Mike Bickle also.

    In your concern about what people are focusing on, it may be you are over reacting to what is impacting their life in the here and now. The cross is something most mature Christians are very familiar with. There is, generally speaking, little need to speak frequently about what happened there as we are all familiar with the facts. Those being the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and its effect on all humanity. Paul the apostle preached the cross always but when he was with the saints the bigger part of his teachings had to do with holiness, understanding righteousness and eschatology.

    ReplyDelete

In the "Choose an identity" section - if you click Name/URL you can enter your name or at least a screen name. The URL is optional. Comment by NAME is encouraged, as all should own up to thier comments.