Thursday, June 03, 2010

Your Pastors are Lying

Mike Bickle recently said "I feel like many of God's shepherds are lying, they're just telling lies about the Bible." What kind of lies and deception could he possibly be speaking of?

Beloved, we're not waiting, 'Oh, rapture me out of here,' a lot of people are waiting to be taken up. They want to go up so they can escape the tribulation and the Lord's waiting for us to grow up to loose the tribulation, through the prayers of faith, I mean the global, united eschatological prayers of faith. Now I know that's a lot of big terms there, or whatever, but we're going to be talking about some of these areas.

-Mike Bickle, OneThing 2008 Podcast 3

I suppose the only way to have a global, united eschatological prayer of faith is to dismiss the prayers of those Christians who disagree. Or you could just not even consider them as truely part of the body. Mike Bickle is not one to shy back from his opinion. In fact, at several places in a three-podcast series, Bickle told the youth of Americal that their pastors were lying.

Some have stated that the "pastors are lying" comments that Bickle repeatedly made before the 2008 One Thing conference were in reference to the "emerging church." You think?

Three videos remain on YouTube which strongly suggest that, among other things, Bickle was speaking of Pre-tribbers such as the Assemblies of God, the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world, who hold to what he calls a "dangerous deception. "

Granted, he does use the term "emerging generation" and also speaks of the "false justice movement" which may lead some to think he is speaking of the emergent church. And he also says something about the "prophetic" church (Hey Mike, who let that monster out of the box?).

But, as seen from the session titles, almost all of the One Thing '08 sessions dealt with eschatology- and his promise in the videos was that he would deal with the lies that pastors were telling.

Here are some more quotes from the podcast series:

"There's a third mandate at IHOP that we haven't talked that much about - this year we're going to focus on it and that's the - what - God's end time plan. What He's going to do particularily, specifically with the body of Christ, in the generation that He returns. I believe we're in those days...."

"Right now the Lord is wanting to get forerunners locked in -really with clarity- about the end-time plan...."

"I feel like the shepherds in the body of Christ are lying on so many levels - they're lies- and I don't mean that there insidious lies where they're in the backroom thinking it through and coming out saying "I'm going to lie to people." I mean there's lies at so many levels, there's lies about how to get saved, there's lies about what the mandate of the kingdom is, there's lies about how the church is supposed to be built, there's lies about what God wants to do with the generation, the young generation that's emerging."

Note that 3 of the 4 areas characterized as "lies" involve the end-times.

Bickle again:

"Beloved we're not waiting "Oh, rapture me out of here," a lot of people are waiting to be taken up, they want to go up so they can escape the tribulation, and the Lord's waiting for us to GROW UP to LOOSE THE TRIBULATION through the prayers of faith, the global united escatalogical prayers of faith, I know that's a lot of big terms there, whatever - we're going to be talking about some of these areas."

As an aside, the theme of a maturing body "loosing tribulation" is, if not MSoG, a very dominion- oriented variation of that theme.

Podcast 1 Podcast 2 Podcast 3

In these videos Bickle promised to expose these falsehoods in his upcoming conference. Supporting the conclusion many have made that Bickle was speaking of the pre-tribbers and not the emerging church is the entire content of the 2008 OneThing conference which had a dominant eschatological theme. In Mike Bickle's published notes he states:

The weakness of this view (Pre-Trib) is its error that Jesus will rapture the Church before the Tribulation. It is a dangerous deception that hinders the effectiveness of the gospel in several ways.
-Mike Bickle, Apostolic Pre-Millennialism

Without getting into a discussion of Pre-Trib vs. Post-Trib, suffice it to say statements which seem to place Godly pastors into the Revelation 21:8 roll call of Hell is a pretty repulsive thing to do.

If he exposed the "lies" of the emergent church in this conference, I have not yet found it in the conference notes or the videos. If it is there, I would like to know.

Furthermore, the nature of the conversations in the IHOP chat rooms shortly after the conference confirm that the nature of the lies involved eschatology.

Keep in mind that the "lie" statement at the beginning of podcast 2 suggests that some of these lies are about the emergent and seeker-sensitive churches. Or support for Obama in the election. See also his comment at 08:16 in podcast 3 "We want to confront things, the deception in the emergent church and groups like this..."

Let's be generous here. It appears that Bickle's comments were not targeted solely at the pre-trib church, but instead were targeted at all churches (pre-trib, emergent and others) that do not have his "revelation."

So perhaps the theme is, if I can tie it into my current series on Mike Bickel's 1983 "Trumpet" sermon, is that the elite spirit ("We get it, no one else does" ) continues to this day in Kansas City.

Or as Mike Bickle once said:

We had an elite spirit. That's become more and more real to
me - it's so repulsive"

-Mike Bickle, Charisma Magazine July 1993.


  1. Good post! Somebody needs to get Mike Bickle a mirror so he can see who the liar really is! I no longer believe that he is deceived, but that he is a knowing deceiver. As someone who has come out of controlling, cultic christianity I will say again that IHOP has all the earmarks of a cult.

  2. Joanne, that's a bit stronger (liar comment) than I feel comfortable with, but I suppose it is fair play.

    As one who came out of Charismatic deception, I will say that it often takes 6 months to a year to even start to recognize the depth of the deception that one was involved in.

  3. Speaking of the pretrib rapture, everyone should be made aware of the writings of journalist/historian Dave MacPherson - the only scholar who has focused on pretrib rapture history for 40 years. (Who's had this focus for 40 months or even 40 weeks?) His many Google articles include "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," "Pretrib Hypocrisy" (includes some AG history), "Edward Irving is Unnerving," Walvoord Melts Ice," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy" and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty." His book "The Rapture Plot" (which I bought at Armageddon Books online) has more documentation on pretrib history than all other such books put together. Bro. Bickle is spot on with his rapture view - the only view known before 1830 (Google "Famous Rapture Watchers"). Also Google "Franklin Graham's Warning." In the 1800s the British were the main promoters of pretrib, but long ago they overwhelmingly saw the light and abandoned it! Leave it up to (Babylon) America to be the holdouts embracing it and making a lot of $$$ with it! Stella

  4. Stella,

    I'm aware of the argument. It has many holes in it, starting with your assertion that Bickle's rapture view is the only veiw known before 1830. But the purpose of the article was not to start an eschatological discussion.

    I count as friends and brothers many who hold to post-trib viewpoints. I don't call them liars.

    The biggest problem I have with certain eschatological views is their propensity to lead one down the path of hyper-dominionism, even MSoG. But it's the dominionism, not the timing of the rapture, that gives me heartburn.

    A most excellent presentation of the problems of hyper-dominionism features Dr. Michael Brown (post-trib) and Dr. Gary DeMar (a preterist). Worth listening to.

  5. Bill,

    Just a note to add to the mix of thoughts here. One reason I don't believe Mike was calling pre-tribbers (such as AG-folk) liars who are bound for hell, is that he has recently made several comments of commendation and honor towards the Assemblies of God. He has commended them as one of the greatest missionary works in the history of the Church, and I don't think one would make those comments if he felt that they were apostate and hellbound, nor would he honor them as a great missionary work if he felt that they shouldn't be considered a "part of the body", as was stated in the article. Just a thought.

  6. Good observation. I have to wonder if this is some sort of backtracking, surely he has gotten grief over his earlier comments. The A/G represents a huge trolling ground for new recruits. OK, that might sound mercenary, but the fact remains that Bickle did say "The weakness of this view (Pre-Trib) is its error that Jesus will rapture the Church before the Tribulation. It is a dangerous deception.."

    As an aside, the A/G is drifting away from its hardcore pre-trib views. Some A/G churches are leaning towards Bill Johnson / Bethel and others, such as National Community Church are dabbling in "the Emergent." I have not researched it, but I would guess the eschatological views are shifting as well.


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