Monday, January 17, 2011

Dial-a-Prophet

Dr. Jeremy Lopez hosts a website called the Identity Network which is into all that so-called Apostolic and Prophetic stuff. And he keeps good company; here's a listing of some of the folks endorsing his ministry:

Patricia King
James Goll
Julie Meyer (IHOP)
Randy Clark
Brian Lake
David Tomberlin
Shawn Bolz
John Crowder
Theresa Phillips


Anyhow, it seems that times are tough out on the old prophetic circuit, so Lopez is trying a new (old) marketing method. link


NEED PROPHETIC CONSULTING?

Do you need some spiritual advice from a prophetic minister?

Do you feel like there are some missing pieces of the puzzle in your life?

If that's you, let one of our staff members set up a time for you to have a PERSONAL session with Dr.Jeremy Lopez. We will contact you by phone and set up time between the two of you for a 30 minute session. Dr. Jeremy Lopez will pray with you and give you the word of the Lord and also sound counsel from the Lord.
Get your credit card ready, because

A donation of $200.00 is requested for prophetic consulting for a 30 minute session. Please click on the PayPal button below. Then EMAIL US your phone number and we can give you a call to set up a good time for your prophetic consulting session with Dr Jeremy Lopez.
Webster's 1828 has an interesting commentary on this practice:

SIM'ONY, n. [from Simon Magus, who wished to purchase the power of
conferring the Holy Spirit. Act 8.] The crime of buying or selling
ecclesiastical preferment; or the corrupt presentation of any one to an
ecclesiastical benefice of money or reward. By Stat. 31 Elizabeth, c. 6. severe
penalties are enacted against this crime.

If red flags are not yet waving, here's a few quotes from Lopez's website:

"He believes this is the hour for the sons of God to arise. This ministry desires to see every believer awake to their destiny. Dr. Jeremy believes it is time to move in God consciousness and walk in His divine nature."
and this from his bio video

"his desire, through prophetic wisdom is that we awaken to the fullness of our divine consciousness."
Manifested Sons of God or New Age, either way this is strange fire.

So what do you think? Is selling prophecies an acceptable practice? Why or why not? Please cite chapter and verse and let us reason together.

29 comments:

  1. Bill,

    Brilliant. At least its right out front where it can be seen in the light of day. Prophets for hire...

    The connection to IHOP is one of the more gross examples of the underlying money motivation. One would need to probe a bit more into the Joseph company to see how much fund raising floats the boat.

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  2. Get a life man. Seriously, do you go to all these websites to find things to expose? You really need to get a life. Your an idiot.... In fact, your a laughing joke. Jeremy Lopez is a great guy! By the way, you are not a christian at all. NO where in the new testament do you read to go to peoples websites and take the time to write dumb things about them. Seriously dude, you must be bored. Get a life!! You really need one...oh by the way, get saved. Love would do you some good. Your fruit is that of satan. Seriously, you are satan and an evil man.

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  3. TTWI Says
    I do the same thing in my little tent with a chrystal ball. I only charge $50.00 for 20 minutes. Then sometimes I will use cards, but I make sure they are new so the word or fortune telling a "fresh".

    So since when is it scriptural to charge for a word from the Lord???? In fact the early church deemed that it is a false prophet if they ask for money!!!

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  4. Just to be clear, (from what I know) I consider Dr. Lopez a brother-in-Christ. I would love to hear his rationale- is this practice justified by "not muzzling the ox on the threshing floor?"

    The aspect of quid pro quo is really what bothers me.

    Obviously, I disagree with the practice, but would really like to see those who agree with it present a better apologetic than "you're an idiot."

    I also would like to add that my more recent blog on Who can ascend to Heaven cites Dennis Cramer. Cramer, to my dismay, also markets his propehtic giftings on his website here.

    Does Matthew 10 (Freely give) come into play here?

    Let's talk.

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  5. Tim Says,

    Frankly Bill,
    I don't think it matters what the scriptures actually say anymore. If it did, they wouldn't be following the practices they do. After all "It Works" doesn't it?

    I would challenge anyone who is a follower of this "camp" and their theology to actually read their bibles. In fact get rid of the verse # since they aren't part of the original and see what it really says in the context of what the authors meant. You might be surprised.

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  6. From Lopez' website, I find this troubling:

    "**We will NOT use the prophetic like psychics or divination. We always ask people to allow Dr Lopez to seek the Lord on your behalf during your session for you and not ask questions that would manipulate or 'persue' others by the prophetic word to fall in love with you, etc.
    Our service will guarantee you a prophetic mini-consulting session, specifically for you."


    The first sentence is a disclaimer: why a preemptive strike such as this if you are a true prophet? Makes me wonder. I understand he is trying to differentiate between asking potentially leading questions like a stereotypical psychic or divination session; yet, I don't believe in foregoing this particular thing, one necessarily is NOT using divination.

    Also, Lopez infers, if not outright states, with the words above and the rest at the link you provide that he can "guarantee" a prophetic result within this half-hour session. So, by this he claims to be able to ascertain your particular concern within this 30 minute timeframe and thereby coerce God into this same timetable. I'm not buying it. Seriously.

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  7. Anonymous, posting on a website the claim that posting on websites is unbiblical makes my head hurt. Can you spell "self-refuting?"

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  8. Dr. Jeremy Lopez is an international teacher and motivational speaker. Dr. Jeremy speaks on new dimensions of revelatory knowledge in scripture, universal laws, mysteries, patterns and cycles. He has a love for all people and desires to enrich their lives with love, grace and the mercy of God. He believes this is the hour for the sons of God to arise. This ministry desires to see every believer awake to their destiny. Dr. Jeremy believes it is time to move in God Consciousness and walk in His divine nature. His desire, through prophetic wisdom, is that we awaken to the fullness of our divine consciousness and live a life filled with purpose, potential, and destiny. He ministers with a revelational prophetic teaching gift that brings a freshness of the word of the Lord to people everywhere. He teaches the principal that we are positioned in heavenly places and are called to minister out of that realm.

    Luke! Luke! It's your destiny!

    Sounds a little New Agey to mee

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  9. Perhaps. This article was more about Simony and less about what constitutes prophecy today in the Apostolic/prophetic churches.

    As pointed out in the article "divine conciousness" does seem over the top.

    Still, I'd like the church to address the common practice of prophecy by subscription. Is this acceptable to God? And if not, by what spirit are these words given?

    Did Elijah trade "words" for room and board? How is this different?

    Come on folks- lets get into substance.

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  10. Wouldn't a prophetic word NOT be contradictory to the scriptures?

    Since these men see themselves as apostles/prophets and they are given "words" that are, in their mind, direct from God and the "word" is a "revelation" of the meaning of scripture for such a time as this, there is no way to convince them that the "word" is against scripture. For they themselves think they have full authority as the 12 Apostles and they can revise and re-interpret as needed.

    This just does not meet the full meaning of scripture since what they say IS scripture as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just asking. Are you idolizing the 12 apostles. Because they were in all sorts of error personally. Paul rebuked Peter before them all... etc., etc. The 12 apostles were sometimes in the Spirit, sometimes not as scripture shows. So, not only can these not claim personal perfection and authority equal to Jesus; neither could the 12. The authority is God Himself. A person would have to be entirely sanctified, like Jesus was at all times, to walk in the full authority of God (via full submission to God). All sin and fall short - including the 12.

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  11. I do not agree with what Mr. Lopez is doing as far as selling prophesy so to speak.

    I do know however the five fold ministry that is stated in Eph 4 is for today. It says we are to be more like Christ. We are to do what He did and showed his disciples. We are instructed to go out, and that we would even greater works then HE did. Many sit around and read the word and do not apply it to their lives then they sit around and judge another. We are to be relationship seekers with Him and action figures in Him and He in us and through us. The word is alive friends and He is the same today as HE was yesterday. He has prophets and He has apostles, in the body of Christ today, He has those who have the gift of healing, and teachers, and evangelists.

    I have seen a lot of men and women in the body of believers who fear the very thing the Lord desires us to do. Now do these things make us God? NO of course not!

    Wake up, simple means quit being lazy and pew seekers and walk in the promises and callings in which you were sent in this earth to do. First of all, "Love the Lord God with all your heart mind and soul, then love your brother as yourself. Hummm The reason the first command was spoken forth is because His church does not even know Him, and until that takes place you can not love thy brother. you just condemn and Either we judge Him because you do not walk in the Fathers love to be able to love one another. Reading the Bible only tells you about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but Knowledge does not give you a true intimate walk with Him but one out of works of the flesh.

    I tell you until we walk in right relationship with Him we are of no use to Him. This is so vital in this hour we live in.

    No again I do not agree with Jeremy but I do read the word and I know what it says.

    Blessings

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  12. Just got this message from the Customer Service Dept at Jeremy Lopez' Identity network:

    I hope you are having a great day today. I know you have received a word from the Lord before from brother Jeremy Lopez. We hope and pray it really blessed you and ministered to you and gave you some hope, peace and direction in your life. If your like me, I like to see what the Lord has to say to me in this new season of my life. If you also want to know what He has for you in this next chapter of your life, go to the link below to request a prophetic word. Also, please remember that the donations you are able to give to this ministry will go to help in spreading the word of the Lord to the uttermost parts of the earth. Please always know we love you here at Identity Network and pray that your life is full of love, hope, joy and peace in Jesus name.

    ORDER YOUR PROPHETIC WORD FOR 2011 TODAY! (link)

    Come on Jeremy- you may have changed your Order page to:
    "Recieve Coaching and Advice for your life" but you forgot to tell customer service that you don't want it to look like you are selling prophetic words. Wow.

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  13. I have known Brother Jeremy Lopez for going on 6 years. He is a true seasoned man of God. I have received many prophetic words and they are pin point. Even private words that only God and I knew. God shared them with Lopez to confirm..Lopez hears God's voice! Because of Brother Jeremy Lopez's God given ministry ...I have been able to stand and to continue to stand under the most difficult times of attacks from the enemy. Because I inquired the word of the Lord..I knew what to expect, wasn't surprised by the enemy . Continued to fight the good fight of faith. Seen victory after victory. And knew only God wrought out a good end that only HIS hand brought forth! I bless God and I bless the man of God Jeremy Lopez!

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  14. BettySue,

    I don't think this article was discussing whether Jeremt Lopez is an accurate prophet or even a nice guy. He may be both.

    Was there an exchange of money for propehcy between you and Lopez? That is the topic of discussion.

    It seems that the practice has not changed, although there is evidence of window dressing to alleviate the criticism. Sad.

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  15. IN RESPONSE TO MR WILLIAM FAWCETT...THE LAST TIME i CHECKED...HOTELS, RESTURANTS AND PLANE TICKETS WERE AND ARE FREE. nOTHING IS FREE. sALVATION IS A FREE GIFT, jESUS PAID THE PRICE. sALVATION IS A FREE GIFT BUT IT WILL COST YOU YOUR LIFE. hE IS lORD YOUR NOT. :) nOW BACK TO lOPEZ...
    I DO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT LOPEZ'S MINISTRY.
    ALSO IT IS BIBLICAL TO BRING A GIFT BEFORE A KING OR PROPHET...king jAMES BIBLE CHECK IT OUT! bye..i HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO.

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  16. Betty Sue,

    Jesus also told the disciples that they had received freely and that they were to give freely. He certainly didn't tell them to charge for their ministry to others.

    I honestly can't think of any instance in the Bible, New Testament specifically, where any one had a set "donation" to be paid in order to receive ministry from someone.

    Freely giving to support or help someone seems to be the example laid down in the New Testament. Not demanding payment for ministy.

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  17. Cherylu,

    You make a good point by bringing up the New Testament. We can find just a few instances where Jesus, the King of Kings and the Prophet of prophets - At his birth, the alabaster box, loaves and fishes, and the loan of a donkey. In None of those was anything expected i return.

    They were given to HONOR the only one who is worthy of our woship.

    However, the the NT, we do find an instance where money was offered for spiritual gifts- the before mentioned situation with Simon.

    The thesis that we should honor prophets with gifts was not accepted by the New Testament church, and in response to abuses by the Catholic Church, Martin Luther lead a protest movement we call the reformation.

    BettySue, you continue to defend Simony and I will continue to speak against it. Thanks for making it clear what is really going on.

    The fact that Lopesz has chnaged the wording on his website to "Recieve Coaching and Advice for your life" tells me that he thinks it is more of an issue than you do.

    God Bless.

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  18. Hi Bill,

    You know, I probably need to qualify my last comment here. In I Cor 9, Paul does say that God has ordained that those that preach the Gospel should live by the Gospel. And I don't even know if what Lopez is doing fits in the category of "preaching the Gospel." But Paul goes on in this instance to say he chooses to give everything to them freely.


    And again, I do not remember any place else in the New Testament where it is ever recorded that people had any kind of a fee system in place to receive their ministry. It just didn't seem to be done.

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  19. Even in the didache, whether true writings or not, notice the bolded part...


    Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him.

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  20. i think people are missing the point here. Jeremy Lopez is running a ministry, and in order to run a ministry you need money to pay for expenses such as bills, and salary of those he works with. He is simply using the gift that God has given him (gift of prophesy) to achieve this purpose. in short the reasoning is to donate something to his church so that he inquires the mind of God on your behalf. Non christians will not understand this but this is how it is. people who have the gift to sing songs record albulms and sell them to the public in order to keep their music ministries going. No one criticises them for that. Secondly Jerey Lopez is a certified life coach. just as a Psycologist charges people for consultation, so does Jeremy charges people for his life coach sessions. The fact that he is a man of God does not mean that he should provide his services for free or on charitable basis. he is a human being, not a spirit. He needs to run his ministry and provide for his family. I do not see anything wrong with his Ministry.

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  21. Anon, we don't "run a ministry."
    And "donations" are not to a church.
    Are "certified life coaches" certified to sell accurate Words from the Lord?

    Good try.

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  22. What does it matter if he does charge??!! Have you ever needed a word from The LORD?? Can you go before The LORD yourself and "hear" Him for yourself?? If so, DO THAT!! If not, why hate on a man who clearly can, and does for millions?!? Why isnt that worth money?! LOTS OF IT? Depending on what your going through, it could be PRICELESS. #DUH.

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    Replies
    1. Interesting... even if it isn't an official document even the people who put this together in the early church knew that asking for money was wrong as a prophet.

      http://reluctant-messenger.com/didache.htm

      The Didache: Teachings of the 12 Apostles

      "Now about the envoys and prophets, do just as according to the tenet of the good message. Now each envoy who comes to you, accept as you would the Lord. But he will not remain for one day. Now if there is need, also the next day. But if he remains for three, he is a false prophet."

      Now when the envoy departs, he should take nothing except bread until he lodges. But if he should ask for money, he is a false prophet.

      And every prophet who speaks with the spirit, you will not test or judge, for every sin will be forgiven. But not everyone who speaks with the spirit is a prophet: but if he has the conduct of the Lord. Therefore, from their conduct, the false prophet and the prophet will be made known. And no prophet with the spirit who orders a meal eats from it, unless indeed he is a false prophet. Now every prophet who teaches the truth, if he does not do as he teaches, is a false prophet. But every prophet who has been proved, who is true, who does things for the secrets of the assembly but who does not teach to do as he does, will not be judged among you. For the ancient prophets did it this way also. But whoever says with the spirit, "Give me money (or something else)," you will not listen to him. But if he says to give on behalf of others who are in need, no one should judge him.

      Tim

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  23. I can think of another case mentioned in the N.T. dealing with a man who tried to give his prophetic services for money:

    2 Peter 2:15-16 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

    Jude 1:10-11 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

    Balaam desired to prophesy for reward (money) in Numbers 22-24, and he died with the ungodly in Numbers 31:8. Balaam and Simon the sorcerer are pretty bad company to be in, frankly. And, by the way, Balaam gave a *true* prophecy, so that is not the point regarding him. He still received a just recompense of his reward from God Almighty.

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  24. But if he says to give on behalf of others who are in need, no one should judge him.

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  25. Now when the envoy departs, he should take nothing except bread until he lodges. But if he should ask for money, he is a false prophet.

    But whoever says with the spirit, "Give me money (or something else)," you will not listen to him.

    Tim

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  26. Jeremy Lopez uses the title "Dr". In what field of study did he obtain this doctorate, and from which tertiary institution? Can anyone supply this information, please?

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