As an example of that unabashed acceptance, here is a recent facebook exchange between David Williams and Bill Johnson:
Williams: So I presume that you and Beni have no issues with the teachings and actions of these (Crowder and Dunn) ministries?
Johnson: We are friends. For us agreement isn't a prerequisite for any friendship. We love them and honor them. Great people.
This is not unlike Johnson's response when he came to the defense of the indefensable Todd Bentley during the Lakeland fiasco.
"Have you spent time with Todd? Do you know him? Have you watched him with his wife? Or have you seen how he treats his kids?...I didn't think so. I have. And I'll continue to support those who I have walked with in life and ministry. He's my friend." -Bill Johnson
So, we can understand that Johnson places a high value on friendship, perhaps higher than putting biblical principals into action. He certainly does not know how to deal with leaven.
In another facebook exchange Dan Carlton asks Bill Johnson about Dunn and Crowder:
Carlton: Why would you entertain two crazy nutters like Ben Dunn and John Crowder?
Johnson: I'll stand with the accused anyday before I'll stand with their accusers.
Sounds like boasting, no? Let's see how the Word of God addresses this:
"Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast affects the whole batch of dough?" -1 Corinthians 5:6
You talk about a prophetic word to the church today! Yeah, I'll put a "thus saith the Lord" in front of that scripture. It's found in His Word. He said it.
Bill Johnson has voiced his acceptance of John Crowder. What does Crowder teach? How is that leaven spreading throught Johnson's Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry (BSSM)?
Crowder, kneeling at the grave of Alexander Dowie and speaking to the camera says:
"And we've just come to the grave today to release to you an impartation of healing revival, of city building, restoration city-taking anointing, master-building apostolic anointing, and so we just rip it right out of the ground, we just suck it right off his dead bones, in Jesus name, and loose it to you., a healing-revival-glory-master-building-apostolic anointing glory..."
Other have commented on this, bringing up the shortcomings of Alexander Dowie. Quite frankly, this would be just as wrong if it were the grave of the Apostle Paul. There is no biblical basis for this practice and it leads people into error.
So just how do these "great people," Dunn and Crowder, impact the students at BSSM?
BSSM Students on ministry trip "soaken up the glory" at Maria B Woodworth-Etter's grave.
2nd Year BSSM students "sucking up the anointing" at the grave of Evan Roberts.
"So today I got impartation from Maria Woodward Etters
grand-daughter and soaked at the grave site..."
Bill Johnson could put a stop to this immediately if he wanted to. And yet he does not. Instead, he has launched an initiative to build "a library/museum called The House of Generals. It will be a place where people can come to see artifacts from past revivals..."
Yes, you too can suck the anointing right off of Kathryn Kuhlman's wedding dress!
Is this ancestor worship? Necromancy? A doctrine of mantle reincarnation? Has Bill Johnson crossed the line from abberancy into heresy?
Bethelite at Smith Wigglesworth's grave- caption reads "In Bradford soaking up Smith's anointing..."
Johnson can dismiss me as an accuser. I'm simply presenting the evidence. Again, Johnson can put a stop to this now. Or he can enlighten the church now with a credible, biblical explanation of the doctrine of "sucking the anointing off of gravesites." I'm familiar enough with the story of Elisha's bones (2 Kings 13:21) to know that this is NOT what that was talking about. And if that WAS meant to be instructive, I say to the Johnsonites- "Here's a shovel, now go find a dead man." And report back to the class.
32 comments:
First a short background. I have visited Bethel and also sat in during one of the BSSM sessions. During my (thankfully) short visit there, we also stayed with a few of the students attending BSSM.
One small note on that first response of Johnson's: He talks about honor. They teach honor with respect to Romans 12:10 and the reading of "Outdo one another in showing honor."
I can say for a fact that for the students attending the school, this is a foundational concept for them. It is something that comes prior to and is a foundational aspect for other concepts learned within the school. Now obviously this is passed down from the leadership.
I guess I relate all that to say that I am not surprised that Johnson would use that language. It's a basis for his life and the ministry of the school he mentors.
Re: Honor.
What a wonderful (and needed) concept that is. Interesting to note the verse right before Romans 12:10, which says:
"Love must be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil, cling to what is good.
And in the next chapter (no chapter divisions in the original)
"Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."
As I said, not wanting to draw a line in the sand is endemic. And here, the line needs to be drawn.
Thank you for your response.
"I get calls from all over the world, everyone wants my anointing and mantle... but nobody wants my sackcloth and ashes."
The very idea of sucking up an anointing from a dead person gives me the creeps. Is it even remotely physchologically mormal to want to participate in something like this?
Well, this is typical of the madness and abandonment of Biblical direction that is prevalent in the "church" today. One must wonder how many of these, so called, leaders in the church are even saved. Experience is more important than God's Word,it seems, leaving the decieved wide open to satans tricks and heresies. No discernment, no oversight, no observer willing to stand up and shout "Hey this is not Scriptural". Oh thats right, they will get kicked out of the bless me club. What happened to the Gospel?
Thank you for this fantastic post. I've seen these pictures before, but this is a great write up to help explain them.
It reminds me of the amazing Old Testament story of Elisha's bones 2 Kings 13: 14-25. Maybe they're reasoning that if there was so much of God's power on Elisha's bones, maybe it's the same nowadays with some people ?
Of course, if this is true, then we ALL should be doing it. If it is not true, then no one should be doing it.
And if God's ressurection power resides on the bones of Alexander Dowie, then just sitting on top of the grave and play-acting is a mistake- I say dig him up and pass the bones around.
But seriously, this was Elisha's 33rd and final miracle. And it has not been repeated since. Not once.
If Bill Johnson's students are doing this without correction, then why isn't Bill Johnson doing it? Or is this behind his recent plans to create a museum of religious artifacts? Just wondering!
" For i determined not to know anything among you save JESUS CHRIST and HIM crucified" ICor.2;2. It seems that these "leaders and "followers" have lost sight of this.
I find it troubling that there are Christian people--quite obviously taken with their intellect and uber-spirituality--who feel qualified, even compelled to judge those with whom they do not agree. And make no mistake, whatever spin you attempt to apply to what you have voiced in this post is, without question, judgmental. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is.
I know nothing of John Crowder's ministry, but I know Bill Johnson. And it is true...he's all about honor, a subject that, by all appearances, is in woefully short supply in this post.
You use the term "leaven" quite liberally and decidedly out of context. I'm not sure what your point is, but if you are suggesting that Crowder and Johnson are to be likened unto the Pharisees of Jesus' day, your argument is wafer thin, my friend, and not to be taken seriously.
RE your issue with Bill Johnson defending Todd Bently. In answer to that, I simply refer you to 2 Samuel 1:17-27, most commonly referred to as the "song of the bow."
You seem to have a quite a bit of Bible knowledge. Just make sure that you are regarding the "whole counsel" of scripture, and not just the sections that support your view. One final suggestion...let grace rule. rg
Pastor Gollner,
Your first paragraph is quite judgmental, and in contrast to my well-researched article, is full of presumption. With your apparent revulsion against judging, how can you live with yourself? Can you see that you just judged, which was your issue with me. It would be funny if not so sad.
You really should learn more about John Crowder's ministry, as it is indeed leaven, which like bad yeast, is spreading throughout the lump. The point of the article was to illustrate how that leaven - the hideous doctrines and practices of John Crowder - is now spreading throughout Johnson's BSSM school.
If you, and the River Church Las Vegas, are going to defend (or even "honor") the apostate Crowder, I will give you the same challenge I issued to Bill Johnson:
You can enlighten the church now with a credible, biblical explanation of the doctrine of "sucking the anointing off of gravesites."
Your brother in Christ,
Bill Fawcett
I can only hope you pray for these guys 10x more than you critique them, but sadly I doubt it from your tone. Self-righteousness will destroy the church faster than anything and this blog reads like a modern-day Pharisee convention.
Joe,
So you agree that they are decieved and need prayer? What if the delusion is the strong delusion that God sends (2 Thes 2:11)- should we pray against the hand of God?
I am not an apologist for Bill Johnson, nor anyone else for that matter, so I'll not be addressing the particulars of your complaint against him.
What I do wish to address is this: I'm put out with you, Mr. Fawcett. Quite put out, indeed. For you are better than this sad, silly and misguided foray into the nether regions of religious criticism. And for what? What do you seek to gain? Why all this needless folderol? At what point were you appointed watchman of holy writ? And by whom?
I've been in full-time vocational ministry for over forty years. I've seen movements come and go. Self-appointed "men of God" come and go. Revivals of all flavors come and go. In that regard, I've historically held to the "Gamaliel" approach to sorting out troubling trends.
Are there things I don't understand? Of course! Are there things in this movement that are weird? Indeed! But, I'm not called to judge, but to love (and if you found my previous comment judgmental, I apologize, for that was most certainly not my intent).
You are well-spoken and have a strong writing voice which bespeaks of a deep, deep well of Biblical knowledge. Having read a number of your posts I admire the obvious effort that has gone toward filling that well. It's a well that could be so useful to the Kingdom if applied in a more positive manner. Controversy will garner you a measure of readership, perhaps a smidgen of notoriety...but in the end what have you accomplished apart from argumentative pursuit?
And THAT, my friend, is my sticking point with all this. What are you accomplishing? I'll not argue with you any longer, but I would be delighted to get to know you for you seem well worth knowing.
I remain, YOUR brother in Christ,
rg
Ron,
If I were to re-write this article, I would start it out something like this:
"It is endemic to the river branch of Christianity today to not be critical of aberrant teachers, but rather to embrace them."
Actually, that's how I did start it out. It is unfortunate that I find it necessary to name names in such articles, but because those names identify significant movements, they remain. It is not my intention to judge these folks - only God know their hearts - but rather to point out - for those seeking such information - some of these practices of these groups.
There are many people who are confused, hurt, even damaged by these practices who are looking for information. Having been involved with such things since the 70s, and having met many of the major players in this movement, I can speak with a depth of knowledge and experience. And I have gained great freedom and spiritual growth having retreated from the extremes of the apostolic/prophetic, not leaving God, or the Holy Ghost, but faithfully following Jesus in a manner prescribed by the Word.
It would be easy to walk away from apologetic blogging (and I have tried), but God won't let me. I don't like being in the middle of confrontation- who does? My calling is to snatch a few brands from the fire. If some do not like that, or perceive that this is not God's will for my life, fine; I can live with that.
I am grateful for the many testimonies that I have received by email, of folks around the world who have found information that - along with prayerful consideration - has helped them to find freedom and to recover from the spiritual confusion (as Derek Price called it - "a mixture of spirits") that is the apostolic/prophetic movement today.
Thanks for the well thought-out reply, which I did not expect. We simply disagree on the utility of exposing people to facts. The pictures of BSSM students in this article, and the quotes, are indisputable. I do not think I have been ungracious in my interpetation of those facts, and indeed would welcome further communication from Johnson concerning these problems.
Johnson is a smart guy, and his dancing around these issues does not demonstate the apostolic leadership abilities he claims to have. I imagine the apostle Paul's reaction to disciples sucking the anointing off of graves would be quite different, no?
Blessings to you.
In response to RG Ryan's question to W. Fawcett asking who appointed him watchmen of holy writ, I point to Jude - the brother of Jesus. "Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3
Bill Johnson is preaching another gospel which in the words of Paul is really no gospel at all. I know many people especially young believers that have been deceived by Johnson’s blasphemy. Mr. Johnson could easily answer his critics scripturally if scripture backed his theology. His support of the heretics John Crowder and Todd Bently is unconscionable.
William,
As noted, I have great respect for anyone who has dedicated their life to pursuing Biblical truth. And I respect you, my friend.
Something Mr. Lopez said troubles me. He said, "I know many people especially young believers that have been deceived by Johnson’s blasphemy." Sir, do you realize that there are many good, Christian people who would label you and I BOTH heretics and "blasphemers" for the simple sake of not agreeing with what we each teach? We need to be careful in how we throw that word around. I fear we have applied it far too liberally of late.
Do you not realize that the heart of the Father beats passionately for those men you so easily write off? I urge you to rethink your posture, for just because you differ with someone's teaching does not make it heresy.
Have people been hurt at BSSM? Absolutely. Have people been hurt at any parochial school/college you care to name? Bet on it! Have people been hurt by the leadership of YOUR church? Unquestionably.
With even the most cursory survey of church history one will glean the indisputable fact that there has always been doctrinal disagreement. Often this agreement has led to heretical charges lobbed across theological divides like ICBM's. Which is exactly my point.
This is nothing new. I have been a pastor in Presbyterian, Baptist, Assembly of God, and independent churches. I was deeply involved in the Jesus People Revival and Charismatic Renewal of the early 70's, as well as involved peripherally with the Brownsville Revival in Pensacola Florida. Can I tell you something? Every single one carried its own bit of doctrinal controversy...according to SOME people. It never stops. Controversy. Never. Stops! And who's to say what's right or wrong? We each must choose a belief system that resonates in our own spirits.
I see that I have once again succumbed to verbosity...but I AM a writer, after all. 8-)
I'll close with this. C.S. Lewis once said, "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." I've had an experience. And I am satisfied with that.
Be well, friend Bill. Fight the good fight. Go hard after your dreams. Feel free to write to me: riverchurchlv@gmail.com
Bill Johnson has honor for his friends but not for God's Word. Continue shouting from he mountaintops about him and his dominionist peers. They are leading thousands of people astray and possibly to Hell.
RG Ryan~ Just because there are people in general who would label any kind of person that disagreed with their understanding of God's word doesn't mean their labeling is true. The bible teaches us that their is the Spirit of truth who will cause those who LOVE the truth to all come to the same understanding and perception of what God's word means and applies. Then it speaks of a spirit of error and that is with people who end up opposing the true perspective of God's word revealed by the Holy Spirit to those who love the truth. There is only 1 truth. If there is division among the body of Christ then the division is a result of heresies being accepted as the truth without testing them up against the word of God and His perspective of what He meant. Bill Johnson speaks out of pride and is boasting as the author's post said. The apostles or Jesus NEVER boasted nor supported a person or ministry that was corrupt and perverted God's ways. Todd Bentley and John Crowder are such that do as well as Bill Johnson. Which is why they all support each other in order to portray a false unity and a false love that is not from God or that is portrayed in His word. Remember the tower of babel? These were all in unity building their own way to God. But God was not approving of what they were doing and confounded their language in order to stop what they were doing because they were all in agreement and God said nothing would be impossible for them as a result of their unity. But that unity was not from God nor was their goal from God. This tower of babel is at work trying to finish what it started years ago. Satan and his minions work in agreement to accomplish their goals in humans they have deceived. As I look at God's word and His character and His character in His apostles it is contrary to that of John Crowder, Todd Bentley, and Bill Johnson. None of them love the truth and NONE of them preach the truth by the Holy Spirit. They all preach false teachings and all promote each other in deception to deceive the body of Christ with pagan demonic spirituality and falsely calling it the Holy Spirit. 1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.~~~ We as believers have a right to not believe every spirit and to try them to see if they are of God because of false prophets among us claiming to be true prophets. 1 John 4:5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.~~~ If a person is truly speaking the truth and by the Holy Spirit those who love the truth and have the Holy Spirit will listen and recognize the truth when it is presented and agree with those who are presenting the truth. But those who have a different spirit and not speaking the truth but are affected by a spirit of error will not agree with those who present the truth because they are under deception but think they are not.
Comment pt 2~ All the deceivers twist the true meaning of God's word just enough to deceive those who are not trying the spirits and knowing exactly what the truth is according to God's perspective not popular men. We have been brainwashed to believe that any person in a ministerial position automatically preaches the truth and no error or deception is in it. But this is not true. We do well to examine and study to show our selves approved and know what God's perspective of truth is rather than become more familiar with the popularly accepted. Satan's greatest way to deceive is to used the most popularly widely accepted people so he can spread deception faster to more people. Any person including christians can have demons they are guided by and deceive others through them knowingly or unknowingly. Our job is not to defend those who preach false teaching in the name of 'love'. This is NOT love. Love is to obey His commands. Love and truth go together because Jesus is the TRUTH and God is love. The epistles of John and the gospel of John both talk about the importance of truth and love together. It is one thing to pray for those that are deceived that is love. But to promote the deceived as ministers of God is not the love of God but is to be deceived and to be used of satan to perpetuate deception. In fact to promote a person who is teaching false teachings and to defend the person above the truth of God's word according to His perspective is to be in idolatry. We don't esteem relationships with people above God, the truth, and His pure love. This is Leviathan at work. the sons of pride who are in such unity that they do not repent when the word of God is sent to them. They ignore the truth and continue on in their deception as if they are God...God loves humility. A person who walks in the fear of the Lord and makes sure that he is not going ahead of God and teaching things that is not in agreement with the Holy Spirit of truth and the word of God. Experiences should always be tested against the word and never elevated above it.
RG Ryan,
You wrote: In that regard, I've historically held to the "Gamaliel" approach to sorting out troubling trends.
The ol' Gamaliel argument. With that logic then the JW's and LDS church are legitimized. I prefer to see whether said ministry is adhering to historically orthodox Christian doctrine relying on objective Truth rather than subjective "knowledge." With that in mind, I hold to Jesus' approach:
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” [Matthew 7:15-29 NIV 1984]
The “Rock” is Jesus. Jesus is the Word made flesh. I’ll stick to the Word, the Rock.
http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/?s=%22look+at+the+fruit%22
Thank you Candy for making my point. Twisting God's word and creating your own gospel apart from the full counsel of God's word is blasphemy.
WHile I appreciate the flurry of comments, let's not make this into a name calling pharisee v. heretic thing.
The point of the article is that Johnson's tacit approval ("honor") of John Crowder has brought Crowder's practice of sucking the anoining off of graves into BSSM.
Cause and effect.
Will Johnson renounce this, or is it somehow acceptable in the apostolic/prophetic. And if so, should others not discuss it in order to bring unity to the church?
Again, I'd like to hear someone develop an apologetic for this behaviour, because I can't find a middle ground- it's either from God (and we should ALL be doing it) or it is straight from the pit of hell.
Now that I've got your attention, prepare for the really bizarre stuff from John Crowder
-begin quote-
Stigmata and Blood Sign Miracles
We invited guest speaker Lucy Rael, a woman of utmost integrity who has for decades manifested the “blood sign,” or stigmata, on her physical body. Not only did the blood sign appear before the gathered crowd in south Atlanta. Also, there were dramatic manifestations of thick, supernatural gold flakes and copious amounts of supernatural oil that flowed from Lucy’s hands as she ministered.
-end quote-
http://thenewmystics.com/Articles/1000040754/Home_Page_of/Articles/Teachings/2008_Archive/Stigmata_and_Blood.aspx
this link should work
http://tinyurl.com/86jjdye
What if those "odd" things that you say come from John Crowder are actually coming straight from God? Instead of spreading things around saying this isn't from God, maybe you should take a few years off and spend some 1 on 1 time with Him and see what He says. :) Blessings. I had issues wondering about it, too, and asked God...and God gave me the green on John's teachings.
Well, that settles it, I guess. You heard from God. Ummm, ok.
Hello Brothers & Sisters In Christ
It may be helpful before you read this post to first read Ephesians Chapter 5 :) and also to some to read James Chapter 3.
I hope this post is edifying and encouraging to every person who reads it. It is easy to put ones self in a place of judgment by saying things that are critical. I believe that the only way to edify people and fellow Christians is to make sure I have grace in my heart and grace in my mouth and words.
I am not all that knowledgable about all of the people mentioned in your conversation here. However I am fairly familiar with Bill Johnson since I have listened now and then to his sermons and have been blessed through that.
I can truthfully say that in every sermon that I have heard him preach he always honors Jesus and so I find the criticism of his ministry problematic. I do not idolize him or any other Christian and I do not believe any teacher is above reproach or error - including myself and the people who write the other comments.
From what I understand, the biblical concept of honoring comes from Jesus words in Matthew 10
40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”
.........................
There are probably more scriptures that back up the concept of honor, this is just the one i know and have practiced in my own life and found to work.
I believe most of the people posting on this website are righteous in Gods eyes. I also believe most of the people mentioned are righteous even though they may have some teachings that are hard to understand. I also believe that there are people who God has appointed to a life and ministry of a prophet and some that God has appointed to different ministries in the body that are totally different ones.
Jesus spoke clearly about how the prophets were rejected by Gods own people and they often died at the hands of Gods people Jews and Christians both.
I am not saying that it is right or even biblical to go to a grave and try to soak up something from the bones. I believe if God wants to give you a mantle or anointing He can do it without you going to a grave. I would like to point out how Elisha was so persistent in following Elijah to get the anointing and mantle.
Also while there may be nothing in the bible to validate them going to graves of dead saints - there is nothing in scripture to validate the existence of the internet blogs.
:)
Is what they are doing by going to graves to pray any different than us on here commenting on what they are doing?
Jesus also spoke about using our words to build each other up. They are followers of Christ.
Continued On Next Post :)
Continued from previous post
James 3
The Tongue Is a Fire
1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well. 3 Now if we put the bits into the horses’ mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their entire body as well. 4 Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. 5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things.
See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell. 7 For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. 8 But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10 from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. 11 Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh.
Wisdom from Above
13 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
..............................
I hope this portion of scripture and Ephesians Chapter 5 are read and can become along with Gods love in our heart a guide for our words and lives. I hope my words are edifying. YJB
YJB,
The purpose of the article is to give people a familiarity with the bizarre practices of John Crowder and how those practices are now being seen at Bethel. It is a "leaven," or as Ephesian 5 says "an impurity" which must not be named among us.
Paul goes on to say "Do not participate in the unfruitfuldeeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."
You are "spot on" in mentioning Ephesians 5. We are charged by the Word of God to expose the deeds of darkness. At best, grave-sucking is a form of idoloatry. This goes far beyond giving "honor." At worst, a form of necromancy.
Let's lean away from the people involved and look at the practice of grave sucking. Is this something that Christians should do? I think not. Hopefully the exposure of this will help to snatch a few decieved brothers and sisters out of the fire (Jude 23), again something we are called to do.
I'm curious as to what proof there is that BSSM students actually do this. IF they do I would be very interested in seeing it. These pictures could be anyone. Now, I'm not defending Bethel by any means, but before I talk to some of my friends who follow Bill Johnson I would like to have my ducks in a row. I would like to know for sure if they are doing this and or if Bethel supports John Crowder's ministry. Being friends with someone does not make you guilty of what they do. If so we are all in trouble. If you have more evidence I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Curtis,
The photos came off of facebook pages of BSSM students. Some I accessed, some by an associate. However, some/most of the pictures are not accessible unless you are a friend or a friend of a friend, so it is a time consuming hunt and requires getting into the social network.
Rest assured, I have other anecdotal evidence that I won't publish because I am not as certain about it validity. These photos- I am certain that they are authentic.
I have asked Bill Johnson directly about stories of him rolling on John G. Lake's grave, and he refused to answer. Had he said "no" I would have dismissed the story, but now I'm inclinded to believe it- which explains why he can't correct these students.
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