Friday, August 05, 2011

Desperately Seeking Source Material


An awful lot of material has been published on the web citing resources that in all likelihood were never seen by the authors of those articles. A form of circular reasoning exists and you will often see the exact same words on multiple sites.

This becomes very evident when you search for certain quotes. Obviously they are citing the same document, but we cannot conclude from multiple citations that the source material is authentic. On the internet, distortions get repeated so many times they they seem to be true, even if not.

And because of rampant revisionism - in Charismatic history - the source material is more valuable than ever. This for instance is what makes the recording of Mike Bickle's seminal "Blow the Trumpet" sermon so valuable.

Here's where I need some help. I'm not questioning the veracity of quotations from the original transcription of "Visions and Revelations," but I would like to examine the entire work rather then selected portions - either tape or transcription. At this point, it seems like certain things have changed in some of the stories - and when you can change the story of a visit to heaven, it strongly suggests that the story is a "story."

Here's what I am seeking:


Mike Bickle with Bob Jones "Visions and Revelations" 1988 (I believe this is a 5 part series). Tapes or Transcripts.

Mike Bickle with Bob Jones "Visions and Revelations" 1989 Tapes or Transcripts.

Any materials on IHOP's "Prophetic History" from 1990 to 2001. We have the 12-part series from November 2002 and the more recent 8-part series from September 2009. This series is often called "Encountering Jesus."
Mike Bickle KCF Prophetic History - 6 (or 10?) tape set from January 1997. Tape 6 features Paul Cain. That may have later been repackaged as a CD (set?) called "Our Prophetic History."

Also on my shopping list:

The six-page joint statement by Mike Bickle and Ernie Gruen from May 16, 1993. This was at one time published on the IHOP website at http://www.ihop.org/Mobile/default.aspx?group_id=1000008264&article_id=1000010561

The alleged recantation of Ernie Gruen. This is not the statement of corrections to the audio tape "Do We Keep Smiling and Say Nothing" placed on page 7 of the Gruen paper. To this date, no one has been able to produce a copy of the recantation and Gruen, shortly before his death, denied that he had made any recantation. However, the alleged recantation is often presented as a defense of Mike Bickle, even though Bickle stated, concerning Gruen's charges: “I absolutely believe that this was sovereign..”

Gruen's report indicate that he had a lot of source material- early recordings and such - and any of that material would also be very helpful. He event cited the "Visions and Revelations" mentioned above.

Any material provided will be archived in a manner that will be accessible to other researchers and in the future (if the Lord tarries) to church historians. You may leave a comment below or contact me directly. Bill Fawcett      fawcetwd@gmail.com

4 comments:

  1. Bill,

    I just saw this post. Excellent! I was going to post a request similar to this. Hopefully, this will bear fruit.

    Perhaps I'll be proven wrong; but, I don't believe the elusive Gruen recantation will be "recovered."

    ReplyDelete
  2. An awful lot of material has been published on the web citing resources that in all likelihood were never seen by the authors of those articles....

    Yes, I have seen this. On a well-known and well-respected discernment site I found a quote I wanted to use; and, having the original source (a book I had not yet read), I looked for the quote in the "source" to no avail. I checked different pages looking at potential common typographical errors as to the page number and I still could not find it. I ultimately did not use it.

    When sourcing a reference which itself is sourcing another, the correct way is to cite the original (as it's stated in the work from which it is taken) and then write "cited in..." or some such language while then listing the source from which that quote was actually taken by you. In this way, if the quote is incorrect for whatever the reason, it can be traced back to the original.

    On the internet, distortions get repeated so many times they seem to be true, even if not.

    There is a well known quote from Ted Turner on depopulation which is all over the internet worded in various ways and cited from various sources. I finally found the original quote which varies quite a bit from what is largely on the 'net both in content and in regards to its source. This is both terribly sloppy and very unprofessional.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Have you tried using www.archive.org/web/web.php ?

    ReplyDelete
  4. When Were Any Of These Apostles/Prophets:
    Beaten...
    Stoned & Left For Dead...
    Imprisoned...

    Why Don't They Pull Their Gold Teeth Out, Sell Them, & Feed The Hungry...

    A Great Revival???
    How About A Great Falling Away...

    Stop Listening To Voices & Visions & Start Reading The WORD...

    ReplyDelete

In the "Choose an identity" section - if you click Name/URL you can enter your name or at least a screen name. The URL is optional. Comment by NAME is encouraged, as all should own up to thier comments.